What is "a god?"

[placebofactor]

Men have imagined many myths, legends, idols, gods, goddesses, heroes, demons, angels, saints, sun gods, moon gods, the gods of the hills, and the thousands of gods of ancient Egypt, Assyria, Persia, Babylon, Greece, and Rome; if gathered together in one place their images would fill the Smithsonian or the Colosseum in Rome.

There are those on this forum that claim Jesus Christ is not the true God. If this is true, he must be a false god like all other gods mentioned above because there is only one true God. And if Jesus is only “a god” what is he the god of?

My Bible claims the true God or Jehovah as some prefer to call him is perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness and is to be worshipped by his faithful followers. The LORD is both the Creator and ruler of the universe; and in the Old Testament, he is called, “I Am, Elohim, or Jehovah.”

So, if Jesus Christ is only “a god,” he is not worthy of any Christian’s love, honor, or respect.

Some claim we can pay obeisance to Jesus, but we cannot worship him. If we can pay obeisance to Jesus who is only "a god," why would it be wrong to bow a knee to any man who claims to be God, or even Satan who is the prince of the power of the air?

[Difflugia]

It can be shown that Jehovah IS the Father.

Are you actually going to do so, or are you getting me all excited for nothing?

Orthodox Trinitarian theology is spurious, IMHO.

When Episcopalians start using scare quotes in their Bibles, I'll think that maybe you're onto something.

[placebofactor]

It can be shown that Jehovah IS the Father.

Are you actually going to do so, or are you getting me all excited for nothing?

Orthodox Trinitarian theology is spurious, IMHO.

When Episcopalians start using scare quotes in their Bibles, I'll think that maybe you're onto something.

Onewithhim wrote, "It can be shown that Jehovah is the Father.

Agreed: But it can also be shown with a mountain of evidence that Jesus is the Jehovah of the Old Testament. I notice that you have continually ignored certain posts concerning Jehovah's face-to-face encounters with the ancient prophets. Men and woman like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Samuel, Manoah, Sarah, and Haggar as well as others. Example: Answer the following:

Genesis 18:1, "And the LORD (Jehovah) APPEARED unto him (Abraham) in the plains of Mamre:" This verse is so clear, I call it (Peski reality) for you Witnesses. If no man has seen the Father, then Jehovah here has to be the Son of God. And don't claim it was an angel. No, it was Jehovah who appeared to Abraham, and no other.

[onewithhim]

It can be shown that Jehovah IS the Father.

Are you actually going to do so, or are you getting me all excited for nothing?

Could you once again explain what God is to you? Did you say that Jehovah is the Father, Son and H.S.? All three? Please refresh my memory.
If that is true, then why would Jehovah be anointing part of himself?

"The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me [Jesus], for the reason that Jehovah has anointed me to tell the good news to the meek ones. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted...etc....to proclaim the year of goodwill on the part of Jehovah and the day of vengeance on the part of our God." (Isaiah 61:1,2) Did Jehovah anoint and send a part of Himself? (See also Luke 4:18-21.)

Or does Jehovah stand alone as an individual, with the Son also standing alone as an individual and not part of Jehovah? If we have Jehovah and the Son by themselves....then who is the Father?

[placebofactor]

It can be shown that Jehovah IS the Father.

Are you actually going to do so, or are you getting me all excited for nothing?

Could you once again explain what God is to you? Did you say that Jehovah is the Father, Son and H.S.? All three? Please refresh my memory.
If that is true, then why would Jehovah be anointing part of himself?

"The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me [Jesus], for the reason that Jehovah has anointed me to tell the good news to the meek ones. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted...etc....to proclaim the year of goodwill on the part of Jehovah and the day of vengeance on the part of our God." (Isaiah 61:1,2) Did Jehovah anoint and send a part of Himself? (See also Luke 4:18-21.)

Or does Jehovah stand alone as an individual, with the Son also standing alone as an individual and not part of Jehovah? If we have Jehovah and the Son by themselves....then who is the Father?

Why would the Father anoint himself? Scripture is clear, he anointed his only begotten Son. The meek ones are the Jews. Jesus was sent to seek and to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel, not the Gentiles. The wrath of God will come down from heaven when the Father again sends his Son, Revelation 19.

I do not understand why certain people find it so difficult to understand that the Father and Son share the same name and the same attributes. Even if Jesus did not share the same name as his Father, he still shares the same attributes, attributes only God can claim. The Son was sent from eternity to create the heavens and earth and all that is in them. He was again sent to save the Lost sheep of the house of Israel. He will be sent a 3d time to judge the earth and to take vengeance out on sinners who refuse to repent, and, to establish his Kingdom.

[Difflugia]

It can be shown that Jehovah IS the Father.

Are you actually going to do so, or are you getting me all excited for nothing?

Could you once again explain what God is to you?

Why? You were going to show me that Jehovah IS the Father. You're not just stalling, are you?

[FruitoftheSpirit]

It can be shown that Jehovah IS the Father.

Are you actually going to do so, or are you getting me all excited for nothing?

Could you once again explain what God is to you? Did you say that Jehovah is the Father, Son and H.S.? All three? Please refresh my memory.
If that is true, then why would Jehovah be anointing part of himself?

"The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me [Jesus], for the reason that Jehovah has anointed me to tell the good news to the meek ones. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted...etc....to proclaim the year of goodwill on the part of Jehovah and the day of vengeance on the part of our God." (Isaiah 61:1,2) Did Jehovah anoint and send a part of Himself? (See also Luke 4:18-21.)

Or does Jehovah stand alone as an individual, with the Son also standing alone as an individual and not part of Jehovah? If we have Jehovah and the Son by themselves....then who is the Father?

Why would the Father anoint himself? Scripture is clear, he anointed his only begotten Son. The meek ones are the Jews. Jesus was sent to seek and to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel, not the Gentiles. The wrath of God will come down from heaven when the Father again sends his Son, Revelation 19.

I do not understand why certain people find it so difficult to understand that the Father and Son share the same name and the same attributes. Even if Jesus did not share the same name as his Father, he still shares the same attributes, attributes only God can claim. The Son was sent from eternity to create the heavens and earth and all that is in them. He was again sent to save the Lost sheep of the house of Israel. He will be sent a 3d time to judge the earth and to take vengeance out on sinners who refuse to repent, and, to establish his Kingdom.

They do not share the same name, Jesus is not the name of YHVH and YHVH is not the name of Jesus, however the meaning of Jesus's name is "YHVH is salvation" which is because YHVH brings to us salvation through His work in Jesus which is accomplished through YHVH's Spirit dwelling in Jesus. I think it's worth noting that other humans also have YHVH within the meaning of their name, take Isaiah for instance, his name means "YHVH has saved".

I have debated the false claim that Jesus is our Creator and thus YHVH, extensively with a number of people for many years. I am going to assume that you likely will not be able to provide me with anything knew that I have not already heard to which amounts to nothing more than circularly reasoning around a rather small number of misinterpreted passages where all the while countless other passages are completely ignored.

You said, "Scripture is clear, he anointed his only begotten Son."

This is not in scripture, matter of fact it is completely against scripture.

YHVH anointed the man Jesus of Nazareth and this man is the promised seed of both Abraham and David, not just any seed of David but the seed to whom YHVH promised He WOULD BECOME a Father to. You distort YHVH's words from 1 Chronicles 17 completely. The word is that a man would become a Son to YHVH, NOT a Son would become a man.

1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant 73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached BEFORE HIS COMING the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Acts 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly.

As said, Jesus of Nazareth was anointed (not a begotten Son was anointed) and he was sent out into the world to which made his coming come after the baptism John preached.

The child to be conceived that is to be named Jesus in Luke 1 is being identified as the son of David of 1 Chronicles 17 and of Isaiah 42 and 61. He is going to be great and he is going to be called the Son of God.

How is it that YHVH our God becomes a Father to that of man? According to 1 John 3 the Son (Jesus) and God's other children are manifested as Sons all in the exact same manner, which is to be born of God to the cause of righteousness. Where are we also told that righteousness comes from? Righteousness is of the fruit of the Spirit, to be born of God to the cause of righteousness it to be born of God's Spirit, very simple.

YHVH's word concerning a son of David to whom He would become a Father to must therefore mean that this son of David would be born of God's Spirit, that this son of David would be called to righteousness. We do in fact have prophesy that a man would receive YHVH's Spirit and be called to righteousness.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him : he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

The anointed man is one to whom YHVH elected from out of the people, the people to whom YHVH had created and had given a spirit to walk therein. In this election YHVH gives him a glory that is for no other person, it is for him only. This man receives YHVH's Spirit and is called to righteousness where YHVH holds his hand and keeps him to fulfill His covenant and be for a light. This is a man whose spirit/mind has been called to walk in all of YHVH's ways where he is able to do so through YHVH's Spirit dwelling in him where it causes righteousness.

It all aligns quite beautifully as God's word indeed should.

Align Isaiah 42 with that of 1 John 3 and what we have is that a man who is called to righteousness is a man who has been born of God, to which is one that is born of the Spirit. Well that all makes sense as Jesus we are told received God's Spirit without measure and at the moment it came to live in him God declared "this is my beloved Son". Oh yah and Jesus had told John just prior that he needed to be baptized in order to fulfill all righteousness! Jesus is in fact the only mortal man to have been begotten with God's Spirit called to righteousness, which is exactly God's promise given by Isaiah as made true in the flesh! That Spirit in him filled him with grace and truth, he was sent out to preach the truth through the Spirit. The people beheld his glory as he did YHVH's works through YHVH's Spirit, he had been elected from among the people and given a glory that was for no other, the glory of becoming the only mortal man to be begotten by God, called to righteousness to fulfill all of YHVH's will

John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Are you reading all the content from above? Are you applying it to other passages?

Who did the word of God come to? It came to the man who received the Holy Spirit not by measure.

Who was sent out into the world? The very man who received the Spirit not by measure where it dwelled and remained in him. For what purpose? For the purpose that he accomplishes YHVH's will not his own.

Jesus is saying that he is a god of the gods where these gods are gods because God declared them as such for speaking His words.

You might find it interesting that the Mechanical Translation of Genesis renders Elohiym as Powers.

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD (YHVH HE EXISTS) God (with POWERS) made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD (YHVH HE EXISTS) God (with POWERS ) had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD (YHVH HE EXISTS) God (with POWERS ) formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

In this light perhaps, when YHVH gives a power unto a man, like the power to speak His words, then in that power the man is a god an elohiym.

Back to John 10,
Do you notice what Jesus uses as the very proof that he is the Son of God? It is the very works he does through YHVH's Spirit that he uses to prove he is God's Son.

1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Where you falter in your misinterpretations to scripture is that you do not at all apply the very fact that in YHVH's WORD before creation was that of the man Jesus of Nazareth. In YHVH's word before creation was the promise of a light that would come, a promise of a man to be born of YHVH's Spirit and be anointed to be a savior and fulfill all of YHVH's will, and would come to be settled into YHVH's House forever and be given an eternal throne and be made a firstborn of many brethren.

This along with the fact Jesus is still a man, a man who was exalted to God's right hand and is a man who is returning in the glory of our Father to inherit all the earth and have dominion over all things, tells you exactly that YHVH had created all things BY REASON OF HIM AND FOR HIM.

Jesus is a man of whom YHVH created, he is NOT the Creator. Jesus was in the Creator's WORD before the world even began. When YHVH said "let there be light" He did so by reason of another LIGHT, the light of Isaiah 42, the man He would call to righteousness who would carry out the very purpose as to why YHVH had created all things in the first place.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #103]

Difflugia, could you please respond to my post #103?

[Difflugia]

Difflugia, could you please respond to my post #103?

Onewithhim, could you please respond to my post #101?

[placebofactor]

[Replying to FruitoftheSpirit in post #106]

Onewithhim wrote, "They do not share the same name, Jesus is not the name of YHVH and YHVH is not the name of Jesus, however the meaning of Jesus's name is "YHVH is salvation" which is because YHVH brings to us salvation through His work in Jesus which is accomplished through YHVH's Spirit dwelling in Jesus. I think it's worth noting that other humans also have YHVH within the meaning of their name, take Isaiah for instance, his name means "YHVH has saved".

I have debated the false claim that Jesus is our Creator and thus YHVH, extensively with a number of people for many years. I am going to assume that you likely will not be able to provide me with anything knew that I have not already heard to which amounts to nothing more than circularly reasoning around a rather small number of misinterpreted passages where all the while countless other passages are completely ignored.

Your comments lead me to understand that you know everything there is to know about the subject. So, there is no sense in wasting your time, or mine. If you claim to know more than all the hundreds of scholars who wrote and examined the following Bibles, the Douay, Wycliffe, Tindal, Bishop's Bible, and King James, who am I to disagree with you? I was not aware we had a Savant among us.

David Hume (1711 to 1776) wrote, "When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."

You know, I have to agree with David Hume. I'm 88 and still learning.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to FruitoftheSpirit in post #106]

Onewithhim wrote, "They do not share the same name, Jesus is not the name of YHVH and YHVH is not the name of Jesus, however the meaning of Jesus's name is "YHVH is salvation" which is because YHVH brings to us salvation through His work in Jesus which is accomplished through YHVH's Spirit dwelling in Jesus. I think it's worth noting that other humans also have YHVH within the meaning of their name, take Isaiah for instance, his name means "YHVH has saved".

I have debated the false claim that Jesus is our Creator and thus YHVH, extensively with a number of people for many years. I am going to assume that you likely will not be able to provide me with anything knew that I have not already heard to which amounts to nothing more than circularly reasoning around a rather small number of misinterpreted passages where all the while countless other passages are completely ignored.

Your comments lead me to understand that you know everything there is to know about the subject. So, there is no sense in wasting your time, or mine. If you claim to know more than all the hundreds of scholars who wrote and examined the following Bibles, the Douay, Wycliffe, Tindal, Bishop's Bible, and King James, who am I to disagree with you? I was not aware we had a Savant among us.

David Hume (1711 to 1776) wrote, "When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."

You know, I have to agree with David Hume. I'm 88 and still learning.

Ten minutes later, Placebofactor changes his mind and will respond to onewithhim.

Let me tell you why YHWH, or YHVH, was not used by the Jews, and most likely the prophets were told by the YHWH himself as they wrote down his words, do not use my name YHWH for the following reasons, reasons God himself could only know because of his foreknowledge, and because he is the
founder of all languages, past, present, and future.

Quite a few languages around the world either lack one or more of the letters Y, H, V, or W, especially when we’re talking about their native alphabets or phonemic inventories, not just how they’re written using the Latin script.

Languages that commonly lack one or more of the following letters, Y-H-W.-V., or H. are as follows.

Many Romance languages (like Spanish, Italian, and French) rarely use "Y" natively. It appears mostly in loanwords.

Arabic and Hebrew have sounds that can be transliterated as "Y", but the actual Latin letter "Y" isn’t used in their native scripts.

Some Austroasiatic and Austronesian languages (like Hawaiian) have very limited consonant inventories and may lack an "H" sound.

Japanese has an "H" sound, but it’s quite different from the English "H", and the Latin "H" is not part of the native writing system.

Classical Latin didn’t distinguish between "V" and "U"—they were the same letter!

Polish and other Slavic languages often use "W" for the "V" sound and don’t use "V" natively. Also, Finnish and Estonian rarely use "V" in native words.

Romance languages generally don’t use "W" in native vocabulary.

Turkish, Hungarian, and Esperanto also don’t use "W" natively—it appears only in foreign names or loanwords.

Some languages don’t use any alphabet at all—they’re purely oral:

Pirahã (Amazon)

Sentinelese (Andaman Islands)

Ongota (Ethiopia). These languages don’t have letters like Y, H, V, or W because they don’t have a writing system at all.

The LORD knew the problem, true Christians understood the problem, but the cults, without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, will never understand the problem. If so many languages do not use one or more of the following letters in their alphabet, Y.H.V.H., then how can YHWH be explained to them? On the other hand, the LORD knew that Lord and God can be translated into all languages; therefore, he told his prophets, "DON'T USE YHWH, MANY IN THE FUTURE WILL NOT KNOW HOW TO READ IT, OR HOW TO PRONOUNCE IT.