Did Jesus Really Pay The Penalty For Our Sins?

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Did Jesus Really Pay The Penalty For Our Sins?

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Question: Did Jesus Pay The Penalty For Our Sins?

Christians today generally accept that nonbelievers will suffer eternally in the fires of hell for their sins. But if the wages of sin is eternity in hellfire, Jesus did not pay the penalty for our sins. He simply died! Where did we go wrong?

Both testaments of the Bible contain covenants or wills between man and God. The inheritance or reward under either covenant is eternal life. The path to eternal life under the Old Testament was obeying all of God's commandments. That is, you must never sin because the wages of sin is death. However, this meant that no man could inherit eternal life because all men sinned.

What if another person could serve the penalty for our sins? For this to occur that person could not already be under the same judgment. If you are already under a death sentence you cannot substitute your life for a friend who is also on death row. In addition, you must serve out his full sentence. Under the New Testament Jesus suffered our punishment of death so that we could inherit eternal life. The wages of sin is death, but He never sinned. Therefore, His life could be given for ours.

But if humans are born with immortal souls the punishment must be changed since the soul lives forever! The punishment for sinning can no longer be the second death as taught in the scriptures. Thus, it has been changed to eternal punishment in hellfire! But if that is the case Jesus Christ did not pay our penalty! Jesus should presently be burning in hell and should stay there for all eternity since this is the punishment mainstream Christianity assigns to mankind for sinning!

This concept that nonbelievers will burn alive in hellfire eternally and never die, trivializes the death of Jesus Christ! In comparison to what present day theology holds in store for one nonbeliever, Jesus' crucifixion on the cross is a mosquito bite! Being crucified daily for a thousand years is preferable to burning alive for eternity. The true punishment for your sin is the second death which is eternal. You never live again after suffering the second death. It is the death which is eternal not the act and torture of dying by fire!

Jesus did indeed serve our penalty and He was a valid sacrifice since He was innocent of any sin! We can now escape the second death and live forever thanks to His sacrifice. Jesus died a physical death as a human on the cross. Man's second and permanent death is also a physical death. Humans who fulfill the requirement of the New Testament covenant do not suffer the second death since their penalty for sinning has already been paid. That New Testament requirement for inheriting eternal life is believing in Jesus as your Savior:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
Those believing in the immortal soul must interpret perish in John 3:16 to mean something other than death since their soul will never perish! One common erroneous interpretation is that it means "spiritual death" or "eternal separation from God." But if the penalty for sinning is eternal separation from God, then once again Jesus did not serve our punishment! Jesus is not separated from God! He is one third of the Trinity of God!

There are some topics in the Bible which are difficult to understand. This is not one of them! Jesus paid the price for our sins. What are the wages of our sinning? Death! What did Jesus do? He died on the cross. In fact, Jesus Christ is the only human to qualify for eternal life under the Old Testament. That is, the wages of sin is death but He never sinned, so He did not have to die. He laid down His life willingly.

The plan of salvation as designed by God is so incredibly simple! The wages of sin is death and all have sinned and are facing the second death. God sends His Son to earth as a human and Jesus lives a sinless life so He does not have to die. Therefore, He can lay down His life for ours. He willingly dies in our stead for our sins. Humans who accept Jesus as their Savior gain eternal life since Jesus has already paid the price for their sinning. Those who do not accept Jesus as their Savior must pay the penalty for their sinning which is perishing in the second death. The wages of sin is death.

However, man believes he is immortal due to use of the word "soul" in the King James Bible and Satan's lie that, "Ye shall not surely die." Man's new plan of salvation becomes extremely complicated as he designs myths to create new punishments for sinning. The true punishment of death as defined by God is no longer viable because man's "soul" lives forever and cannot die!

But no matter what mythical punishments men create to protect the immortal soul myth, none of them pass one simple and obvious test. Jesus Christ had to pay the full penalty for our sinning in order to become our Savior. He had to serve our full punishment. What did He do? He died! He died! Read it once again, He died! The wages of sin is death, and He died in our place. He is not burning in hell for eternity, He is not eternally separated from God, He did not have to write, "I will not sin" one trillion times, or any other ridiculous punishment! He died. Those who choose not to believe in Jesus must pay their own wages for sinning. Therefore, they die! Can this be any simpler?

If you are a Christian, you will have (future tense) eternal life! However, Christians believing the false theology of the immortal soul will be asked some embarrassing questions upon meeting Jesus face to face! How could they believe that Jesus, who created everything, would create a system whereby one individual would suffer pain and horror for eternity in the fires of hell? What part of "God is love," did they not understand? Here is our Savior who died that we might have eternal life. Yet, shortly after He departs the earth, most are convinced that all mankind is born with eternal life! Here is our Savior who taught nonviolence, turn the other cheek, love your enemies, do good to them that hurt you. Yet, shortly after His departure, most are convinced that His plan is for untold masses of humanity to suffer indescribable pain for eternity! If this was in His plan, why did He not mention it in detail while He was a human on earth? Granted, most of us were taught this false theology from birth. Even so, at some point when we began to reason on our own we should have seen the obvious flaw. Begin now to prepare your answers to these questions which will surely be asked!

Taken by permission from http://www.have-no-fear.com

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Post #91

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myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote a lot of stuff which I did not understand, then regarding the Genesis creation he wrote: It was better than Good. It was Perfect. God was being humble and is waiting for us to remind Him that He cannot do good, He ca only do Perfect.

True Christians will recognize this.
God does not need man to remind Him that He "cannot do good." That is so comical. Once again, if you claim that God can only do perfect, then you are claiming that God lied when He declared His creation to be "good." That's your third time. Why do you insist on beating a dead horse!

True Christians will recognize that your statement above is ridiculous. God does not need man to remind Him of anything!
God is justified by man. Man is justified by God.
I can say that God broke His law by liying. I can say that God broke His law by killing millions of men in the flood.

I do not believe it but ant that read the Bible that way can say that God breaks His own Law.

The question then would be; Is it OK for the Lawmaker to break His own Law?

A perfect creation like God, Who produces imperfect creations would be a defective creation. God has no defects and can only produce Perfection.

Show where God looses His power to do Perfect works.

Regards
DL

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Post #92

Post by myth-one.com »

Greatest I Am wrote:God is justified by man. Man is justified by God.
I can say that God broke His law by liying. I can say that God broke His law by killing millions of men in the flood.

I do not believe it but ant that read the Bible that way can say that God breaks His own Law.
You can write a series of books about "stuff you say" and its significance is that it would be "stuff you say." Prove to me that something you say is supported by the scriptures.
Greatest I Am wrote:The question then would be; Is it OK for the Lawmaker to break His own Law?
Based on the first quoted words of wisdom from "DL" he believes he has opened up a new question?

Interpret the following sentence for me. Are you "speaking in tongues?"
Greatest I Am wrote:I do not believe it but ant that read the Bible that way can say that God breaks His own Law.
Greatest I Am wrote:A perfect creation like God, Who produces imperfect creations would be a defective creation. God has no defects and can only produce Perfection.

Show where God looses His power to do Perfect works.
What? I believe God is perfect! Whereas, you have used the word "Goofed" in the past to refer to God's creations. YOU "show where God looses His power to do Perfect works" if that is what you believe.
Greatest I Am wrote:I can say that God broke His law by liying.
If you do say that and you mean lying instead of "liying," then that would be the fourth time that you have recently called God a liar. Due to the uncertainty, let's be generous and not count this one. After all, only you and God know for sure.

Have a nice day.

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Post #93

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myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:God is justified by man. Man is justified by God.
I can say that God broke His law by liying. I can say that God broke His law by killing millions of men in the flood.

I do not believe it but ant that read the Bible that way can say that God breaks His own Law.
You can write a series of books about "stuff you say" and its significance is that it would be "stuff you say." Prove to me that something you say is supported by the scriptures.
Greatest I Am wrote:The question then would be; Is it OK for the Lawmaker to break His own Law?
Based on the first quoted words of wisdom from "DL" he believes he has opened up a new question?

Interpret the following sentence for me. Are you "speaking in tongues?"
Greatest I Am wrote:I do not believe it but ant that read the Bible that way can say that God breaks His own Law.
Greatest I Am wrote:A perfect creation like God, Who produces imperfect creations would be a defective creation. God has no defects and can only produce Perfection.

Show where God looses His power to do Perfect works.
What? I believe God is perfect! Whereas, you have used the word "Goofed" in the past to refer to God's creations. YOU "show where God looses His power to do Perfect works" if that is what you believe.
Greatest I Am wrote:I can say that God broke His law by liying.
If you do say that and you mean lying instead of "liying," then that would be the fourth time that you have recently called God a liar. Due to the uncertainty, let's be generous and not count this one. After all, only you and God know for sure.

Have a nice day.
I believe in the Perfection of God.

Those who read the Bible literally must end up with a God who has goofed.
They must end up with a God that that makes laws like thou shall not kill and then breaks His own law by killing many humans. Not a fair fight at all. Not a good practice at all.

I do not read the Bible literally and therefore believe that God always makes Perfection, as befits a Perfect God.

I see His Perfect works all about even as we "speak".

Do you? Or has God's Perfect systems somehow lost their Perfection?

Regards
DL

twobitsmedia

Post #94

Post by twobitsmedia »

Greatest I Am wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:God is justified by man. Man is justified by God.
I can say that God broke His law by liying. I can say that God broke His law by killing millions of men in the flood.

I do not believe it but ant that read the Bible that way can say that God breaks His own Law.
You can write a series of books about "stuff you say" and its significance is that it would be "stuff you say." Prove to me that something you say is supported by the scriptures.
Greatest I Am wrote:The question then would be; Is it OK for the Lawmaker to break His own Law?
Based on the first quoted words of wisdom from "DL" he believes he has opened up a new question?

Interpret the following sentence for me. Are you "speaking in tongues?"
Greatest I Am wrote:I do not believe it but ant that read the Bible that way can say that God breaks His own Law.
Greatest I Am wrote:A perfect creation like God, Who produces imperfect creations would be a defective creation. God has no defects and can only produce Perfection.

Show where God looses His power to do Perfect works.
What? I believe God is perfect! Whereas, you have used the word "Goofed" in the past to refer to God's creations. YOU "show where God looses His power to do Perfect works" if that is what you believe.
Greatest I Am wrote:I can say that God broke His law by liying.
If you do say that and you mean lying instead of "liying," then that would be the fourth time that you have recently called God a liar. Due to the uncertainty, let's be generous and not count this one. After all, only you and God know for sure.

Have a nice day.
I believe in the Perfection of God.

Those who read the Bible literally must end up with a God who has goofed.
They must end up with a God that that makes laws like thou shall not kill and then breaks His own law by killing many humans. Not a fair fight at all. Not a good practice at all.

I do not read the Bible literally and therefore believe that God always makes Perfection, as befits a Perfect God.

I see His Perfect works all about even as we "speak".

Do you? Or has God's Perfect systems somehow lost their Perfection?

Regards
DL
You are making up a concept of God as you go along. The only right answer is the one you want it to be because you have said the Bible is screwed up. If I were you, I would pitch that bible (if you have one) in the trash because it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the God you generally defend.

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Post #95

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Greatest I Am wrote:I believe in the Perfection of God.
So do I! Also, thank you for a clear, precise posting.
Greatest I Am wrote:Those who read the Bible literally must end up with a God who has goofed.
We disagree here. Your first sentence above stated that, "I (Greatest I Am) believe in the Perfection of God." But the scriptures are the inspired words of God:
II Timothy 3:16 wrote:All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
If:
(1)God truly inspired the scriptures and
(2)God is Perfection, then
(3) how can those who read God's inspired words literally end up with a God that goofed?

If God goofed, then He is either not perfect or He did not inspire the scriptures. If He is Perfection and inspired the scriptures, then there are no goofs in the original scriptures. There are errors in some of the translated versions of the scriptures which we read today, but these were introduced by man, not God.

The correct answer is that the scriptures are true, God is perfection, and God did not goof. If you read the scriptures literally and end up with a God that goofed, then you did not understand the scriptures. Even the twelve disciples did not understand the scriptures until Jesus opened their understanding shortly before His ascension to heaven:
Luke 24:45 wrote:Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.
Greatest I Am wrote:They must end up with a God that that makes laws like thou shall not kill and then breaks His own law by killing many humans. Not a fair fight at all. Not a good practice at all.
God's laws given to mankind apply to man, not God. If God kills humans, they deserved to die. If the wages of sin is death, all of us have been living on borrowed time since about six years of age!
Greatest I Am wrote:I do not read the Bible literally and therefore believe that God always makes Perfection, as befits a Perfect God.
Yes, we all know that you only select those verses which meet your needs. You have lots of company in this behavior. Every Christian pastor and evangelist I've ever know or heard does the same. Have you ever been to a Christian funeral where the pastor did not state that the deceased is in a better place now? He or she (being a Christian) has died and gone to heaven to be with God for eternity. But this contradicts the scriptures where God inspired the following to be written:
John 3:13 wrote:And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Man believes his pastors and evangelists over the scriptures! Probably because they have more honorary doctoral degrees than God.
Greatest I Am wrote:I see His Perfect works all about even as we "speak".
Do you?
Absolutely, even in the scriptures. It is the most amazing book ever written.

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Post #96

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twobitsmedia

The Bible is my road map to God.

I read it in a way that shows a winning God, not the loosing God that most readers see.

What good is a God that can't do a good heaven, angels rebel. What good a God who can't make a world that rebels.
What goo a God who can't even make adjustments that return a world to His liking.

You read it as literally as you like and live with your incompetent God. I will read it my way and end with a winner, not a looser.

Why would you follow a God that goofs all the time?

Regards
DL

twobitsmedia

Post #97

Post by twobitsmedia »

Greatest I Am wrote:twobitsmedia

The Bible is my road map to God.

I read it in a way that shows a winning God, not the loosing God that most readers see.

What good is a God that can't do a good heaven, angels rebel. What good a God who can't make a world that rebels.
What goo a God who can't even make adjustments that return a world to His liking.

You read it as literally as you like and live with your incompetent God. I will read it my way and end with a winner, not a looser.

Why would you follow a God that goofs all the time?
I will stick with my "incompetent God." as you say. Your definition of what a winner and loser is relative to you and seems to be the basis for the God you have created for yourself. In your mind you have already proved yourself much smarter than the God of the Bible so I suspect there is no way that I would even want to attempt to burst your impenatrable bubble. May your God bless you and keep you.

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Post #98

Post by myth-one.com »

Greatest I Am wrote:The Bible is my road map to God.

I read it in a way that shows a winning God, not the loosing God that most readers see.

What good is a God that can't do a good heaven, angels rebel. What good a God who can't make a world that rebels.
What goo a God who can't even make adjustments that return a world to His liking.

You read it as literally as you like and live with your incompetent God. I will read it my way and end with a winner, not a looser.

Why would you follow a God that goofs all the time?
There is but one God and I follow Him. All Christians worship that same one God. Please do not call our God a liar or incompetent again.

You will have to take this up with God when you meet Him face-to-face.

Good Luck!!

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Post #99

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myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:The Bible is my road map to God.

I read it in a way that shows a winning God, not the loosing God that most readers see.

What good is a God that can't do a good heaven, angels rebel. What good a God who can't make a world that rebels.
What goo a God who can't even make adjustments that return a world to His liking.

You read it as literally as you like and live with your incompetent God. I will read it my way and end with a winner, not a looser.

Why would you follow a God that goofs all the time?
There is but one God and I follow Him. All Christians worship that same one God. Please do not call our God a liar or incompetent again.

You will have to take this up with God when you meet Him face-to-face.

Good Luck!!
Meeting God is what showed me His Perfection.
What good is a God who is not.
What good is a God who screws up heaven before creating a screwed up earth with defective human beings.
What good is a God who breaks His own Law and kills men.
Keep your loosing God.

If that is the trust you place in a looser. good luck.

Regards
DL

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Post #100

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Greatest I Am wrote:Meeting God is what showed me His Perfection.
What good is a God who is not.
What good is a God who screws up heaven before creating a screwed up earth with defective human beings.
What good is a God who breaks His own Law and kills men.
Keep your loosing God.

If that is the trust you place in a looser. good luck.
Yes, I think I understand what you're saying. There is your God of Perfection, and a God for all of us losers.

For racists, there is probable a God for whites, blacks, browns, yellows, etc.

Probably one for heterosexuals and bisexuals and homosexuals also.

But since God said there is but one God, are you now saying that in addition to being a liar and incompetent, God is also ignorant? Perhaps incompetent and ignorant can be combined. I'm loosing track of your godly name calling anyway.

How does that really work? Will there be separate areas in heaven for each group? I suddenly saw the light and understood, but now its getting fuzzy again. Perhaps God really meant that each of us is allowed only one God. You have yours, I have mine, racists have theirs... etc.

But wait, that might not work for a perfect bisexual racist physically handicapped giant. Would he be allowed five gods, or have to choose one? This is getting complicated.
============================================
I cannot let you go without once again pointing out that God did not screw up heaven or earth, create defective beings, and break His own laws!

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