Jehovah's Witnesses and the Trinity Part 1

[SiNcE_1985]

.

No excuses, Jesus is God.

We are gonna deal with these Trinity-Proof texts, one by one....using Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) own New World's Translation, while I use the New King James Version (NKJV)...and we are gonna expose their faulty NWT, as needed.

For this thread, we will examine the following three books and verses..

Isa 40:3 – Mark 1:1-8 – Malachi 3:1

Lets begin with Isa 40:3..

Isa 40:3
NKJV Isa 40:3 ”The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
NWT Isa 40:3 A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: “Clear up* the way of Jehovah! Make a straight highway through the desert for our God.

Now, as you can see, in comparison, both the NKJV and the NWT reads the same.

It is commanded that a clear path is made for God (Lord, Jehovah), because he is coming through!!

Ok, now, lets look at Malachi 3:1..

NKJV Mal 3:1 “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the Lord of hosts.

NWT Mal 3:1  “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up* a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.

Virtually the same message, the Lord is coming...and the path is being cleared for him.

The significance? This is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus....and this messenger who clears the path for him, is John the Baptist.

How do we know?

Because, in Mark 1:1-8...

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in [a]the Prophets:

“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”

4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8 I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The implication is simple, Jesus is God.

Even in JW's own NWT Bible, it is said that the path (Isa 40:3) is being made clear for Jehovah/God.

The author of Mark connects the subject of the cleared path in the book of Isaiah (who is identified as Jehovah/God), to the subject of the path in his own book (who is identified as Jesus).

This is irrefutable evidence of the fact that; Jesus is God.

Anyone who has beef with this, let me know.

[Capbook]

You deny Jesus required saving from death and yet you continue to post verses which say otherwise.

Your church make Jesus fear of death as doctrine. Required? Was He saved from death? Pointless argument.

Copy and pasting only shows you are losing ground in this discussion and or running out of material to support as evidence. F2F

I post Bible verses not from paraphrase translations. I believe it's impossible to explain to a closed minded with preconceived beliefs governed by the GB.

[face2face]

You deny Jesus required saving from death and yet you continue to post verses which say otherwise.

Your church make Jesus fear of death as doctrine. Required? Was He saved from death? Pointless argument.

Copy and pasting only shows you are losing ground in this discussion and or running out of material to support as evidence. F2F

I post Bible verses not from paraphrase translations. I believe it's impossible to explain to a closed minded with preconceived beliefs governed by the GB.

Your responses are becoming shorter and shorter because you do not have the whole picture of Christ.

Here is another:

I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress (agony) until it is accomplished! Luke 12:50

Talk to me about the Lord's daily agony.

What did he agonize over?

What was distressing about his struggle?

How great was it?

If you believe Jesus is God, how much does that diminish the depth of his distress—compared to the truth about his real nature?

It's evident that your view stands in opposition to the teaching of the apostles—anyone reading this exchange can see that clearly

F2F

[face2face]

You deny Jesus required saving from death and yet you continue to post verses which say otherwise.

Your church make Jesus fear of death as doctrine. Required? Was He saved from death? Pointless argument.

Copy and pasting only shows you are losing ground in this discussion and or running out of material to support as evidence. F2F

I post Bible verses not from paraphrase translations. I believe it's impossible to explain to a closed minded with preconceived beliefs governed by the GB.

Upon a re-read there is a lot of self-inflicted ignorance in your reply.

Once again you do not understand why the Lord was raised up a Son out of sin's flesh and what God achieved in him.

and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. Hebrews 2:14

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him (God) that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Hebrews 5:7

Can you see?

His fear of God overcame his fear of death. Though he still feared death—knowing he would be under its power and cease to exist for three days—he placed his trust in his God and Father to raise him. In the same way, all who share that faith can also be raised.

I mean, we are discussing Bible truths Trinitarians cannot enter for fear of losing their three headed god.

F2F

[face2face]

If the Apostles understood Jesus to be 100% fully man and not someone who did not preexisted, would that also mean they understood a Jesus who required saving from death? Like themselves?

Or, does the Trinity turn a believer like Capbook into a Serpent minded believer, "you shalt not surely die!" Genesis 3:4

Does the Trinity change the death state?

F2F

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #197]


1John 5:20=But we know the son of God has come and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one, and we are in union with the true one, by means of (HIS =( true God=true one) son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and everlasting life.

his and the true one is being called God, not Jesus.

[onewithhim]

.


No excuses, Jesus is God.

We are gonna deal with these Trinity-Proof texts, one by one....using Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) own New World's Translation, while I use the New King James Version (NKJV)...and we are gonna expose their faulty NWT, as needed.

For this thread, we will examine the following three books and verses..

Isa 40:3 – Mark 1:1-8 – Malachi 3:1

Lets begin with Isa 40:3..

Isa 40:3
NKJV Isa 40:3 ”The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
NWT Isa 40:3 A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: “Clear up* the way of Jehovah! Make a straight highway through the desert for our God.

Now, as you can see, in comparison, both the NKJV and the NWT reads the same.

It is commanded that a clear path is made for God (Lord, Jehovah), because he is coming through!!

Ok, now, lets look at Malachi 3:1..

NKJV Mal 3:1 “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the Lord of hosts.

NWT Mal 3:1  “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up* a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.

Virtually the same message, the Lord is coming...and the path is being cleared for him.

The significance? This is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus....and this messenger who clears the path for him, is John the Baptist.

How do we know?

Because, in Mark 1:1-8...

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in [a]the Prophets:

“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”

4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8 I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The implication is simple, Jesus is God.

Even in JW's own NWT Bible, it is said that the path (Isa 40:3) is being made clear for Jehovah/God.

The author of Mark connects the subject of the cleared path in the book of Isaiah (who is identified as Jehovah/God), to the subject of the path in his own book (who is identified as Jesus).

This is irrefutable evidence of the fact that; Jesus is God.

Anyone who has beef with this, let me know.

I have beef with it. Kindly go to the thread titled "Jesus is not God" and view the OP. I would appreciate your comments.

[Capbook]

You deny Jesus required saving from death and yet you continue to post verses which say otherwise.

Your church make Jesus fear of death as doctrine. Required? Was He saved from death? Pointless argument.

Copy and pasting only shows you are losing ground in this discussion and or running out of material to support as evidence. F2F

I post Bible verses not from paraphrase translations. I believe it's impossible to explain to a closed minded with preconceived beliefs governed by the GB.

Your responses are becoming shorter and shorter because you do not have the whole picture of Christ.

Here is another:

I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress (agony) until it is accomplished! Luke 12:50

Talk to me about the Lord's daily agony.

What did he agonize over?

What was distressing about his struggle?

How great was it?

If you believe Jesus is God, how much does that diminish the depth of his distress—compared to the truth about his real nature?

It's evident that your view stands in opposition to the teaching of the apostles—anyone reading this exchange can see that clearly

F2F

If you use literal word for word Bible translations our discussion will be productive. Paraphrase translations clearly misled many, as they changed Bible words and also add words to the original languages.
Of which major translators of NWT, F. Franz I believe lacks Greek credentials, where JW heavily based their beliefs.
And I believe that you were not taught to consult Bible lexicons, I might believe also misunderstood the meaning of "redeem".

[face2face]

You deny Jesus required saving from death and yet you continue to post verses which say otherwise.

Your church make Jesus fear of death as doctrine. Required? Was He saved from death? Pointless argument.

Copy and pasting only shows you are losing ground in this discussion and or running out of material to support as evidence. F2F

I post Bible verses not from paraphrase translations. I believe it's impossible to explain to a closed minded with preconceived beliefs governed by the GB.

Your responses are becoming shorter and shorter because you do not have the whole picture of Christ.

Here is another:

I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress (agony) until it is accomplished! Luke 12:50

Talk to me about the Lord's daily agony.

What did he agonize over?

What was distressing about his struggle?

How great was it?

If you believe Jesus is God, how much does that diminish the depth of his distress—compared to the truth about his real nature?

It's evident that your view stands in opposition to the teaching of the apostles—anyone reading this exchange can see that clearly

F2F

If you use literal word for word Bible translations our discussion will be productive. Paraphrase translations clearly misled many, as they changed Bible words and also add words to the original languages.
Of which major translators of NWT, F. Franz I believe lacks Greek credentials, where JW heavily based their beliefs.
And I believe that you were not taught to consult Bible lexicons, I might believe also misunderstood the meaning of "redeem".

Your response didn’t address Luke 12:50 or the questions raised.

Avoiding the core issues only highlights how ineffective your resistance is to the true Gospel preached by the apostles.

When you are ready to ask good questions of the Word of God let me know. Until then you remain self-deceived by the dogma.

F2F

[Capbook]

You deny Jesus required saving from death and yet you continue to post verses which say otherwise.

Your church make Jesus fear of death as doctrine. Required? Was He saved from death? Pointless argument.

Copy and pasting only shows you are losing ground in this discussion and or running out of material to support as evidence. F2F

I post Bible verses not from paraphrase translations. I believe it's impossible to explain to a closed minded with preconceived beliefs governed by the GB.

Your responses are becoming shorter and shorter because you do not have the whole picture of Christ.

Here is another:

I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress (agony) until it is accomplished! Luke 12:50

Talk to me about the Lord's daily agony.

What did he agonize over?

What was distressing about his struggle?

How great was it?

If you believe Jesus is God, how much does that diminish the depth of his distress—compared to the truth about his real nature?

It's evident that your view stands in opposition to the teaching of the apostles—anyone reading this exchange can see that clearly

F2F

If you use literal word for word Bible translations our discussion will be productive. Paraphrase translations clearly misled many, as they changed Bible words and also add words to the original languages.
Of which major translators of NWT, F. Franz I believe lacks Greek credentials, where JW heavily based their beliefs.
And I believe that you were not taught to consult Bible lexicons, I might believe also misunderstood the meaning of "redeem".

Your response didn’t address Luke 12:50 or the questions raised.

Avoiding the core issues only highlights how ineffective your resistance is to the true Gospel preached by the apostles.

When you are ready to ask good questions of the Word of God let me know. Until then you remain self-deceived by the dogma.

F2F

If you agree that we both use literal word for word Bible translations we will see the truth, God's message for us.

Luke 12:50, that speaks of Jesus in human nature. Do you believe that Jesus as God needs baptism?
I do not believe that you don't experience fear, distressed and everything Jesus undergo as human just like you.
Have you not experience fear? distressed? If not then you are not human unlike Jesus when He was on earth.
I believe these are shallow arguments. That I feel not worth of attention, cause these are common sense.
Can you find any that's worth to be addressed?
The verse is the beginning of the prophesied sacrifice of Jesus in human nature.
Make importance of the term "prophesied sacrifice." And I believe you will understand the whole scenario.

Luke 12:50
50 "But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!
NASB

[face2face]

Your church make Jesus fear of death as doctrine. Required? Was He saved from death? Pointless argument.

I post Bible verses not from paraphrase translations. I believe it's impossible to explain to a closed minded with preconceived beliefs governed by the GB.

Your responses are becoming shorter and shorter because you do not have the whole picture of Christ.

Here is another:

I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress (agony) until it is accomplished! Luke 12:50

Talk to me about the Lord's daily agony.

What did he agonize over?

What was distressing about his struggle?

How great was it?

If you believe Jesus is God, how much does that diminish the depth of his distress—compared to the truth about his real nature?

It's evident that your view stands in opposition to the teaching of the apostles—anyone reading this exchange can see that clearly

F2F

If you use literal word for word Bible translations our discussion will be productive. Paraphrase translations clearly misled many, as they changed Bible words and also add words to the original languages.
Of which major translators of NWT, F. Franz I believe lacks Greek credentials, where JW heavily based their beliefs.
And I believe that you were not taught to consult Bible lexicons, I might believe also misunderstood the meaning of "redeem".

Your response didn’t address Luke 12:50 or the questions raised.

Avoiding the core issues only highlights how ineffective your resistance is to the true Gospel preached by the apostles.

When you are ready to ask good questions of the Word of God let me know. Until then you remain self-deceived by the dogma.

F2F

If you agree that we both use literal word for word Bible translations we will see the truth, God's message for us.

Luke 12:50, that speaks of Jesus in human nature. Do you believe that Jesus as God needs baptism?
I do not believe that you don't experience fear, distressed and everything Jesus undergo as human just like you.
Have you not experience fear? distressed? If not then you are not human unlike Jesus when He was on earth.
I believe these are shallow arguments. That I feel not worth of attention, cause these are common sense.
Can you find any that's worth to be addressed?
The verse is the beginning of the prophesied sacrifice of Jesus in human nature.
Make importance of the term "prophesied sacrifice." And I believe you will understand the whole scenario.

Luke 12:50
50 "But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!
NASB

Shallow arguments? Jesus' suffering in sin's flesh shallow? Your ignorance is bold! I can't expect you to know him - that's not fair - it's like asking a chronically sick person to be healthy and well.

Your desease is in your mind!

"and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man." John 2:25

how did Jesus "know" what was in man?

What was Jesus redeemed from?

F2F