Jehovah's Witnesses and the Trinity Part 1

[SiNcE_1985]

.

No excuses, Jesus is God.

We are gonna deal with these Trinity-Proof texts, one by one....using Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) own New World's Translation, while I use the New King James Version (NKJV)...and we are gonna expose their faulty NWT, as needed.

For this thread, we will examine the following three books and verses..

Isa 40:3 – Mark 1:1-8 – Malachi 3:1

Lets begin with Isa 40:3..

Isa 40:3
NKJV Isa 40:3 ”The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
NWT Isa 40:3 A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: “Clear up* the way of Jehovah! Make a straight highway through the desert for our God.

Now, as you can see, in comparison, both the NKJV and the NWT reads the same.

It is commanded that a clear path is made for God (Lord, Jehovah), because he is coming through!!

Ok, now, lets look at Malachi 3:1..

NKJV Mal 3:1 “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the Lord of hosts.

NWT Mal 3:1  “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up* a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.

Virtually the same message, the Lord is coming...and the path is being cleared for him.

The significance? This is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus....and this messenger who clears the path for him, is John the Baptist.

How do we know?

Because, in Mark 1:1-8...

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in [a]the Prophets:

“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”

4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8 I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The implication is simple, Jesus is God.

Even in JW's own NWT Bible, it is said that the path (Isa 40:3) is being made clear for Jehovah/God.

The author of Mark connects the subject of the cleared path in the book of Isaiah (who is identified as Jehovah/God), to the subject of the path in his own book (who is identified as Jesus).

This is irrefutable evidence of the fact that; Jesus is God.

Anyone who has beef with this, let me know.

[face2face]

[Replying to Capbook in post #97]


They got Lord from their altered OT LORD at Joel 2:21-22--YHVH( Jehovah) is what God willed at Joel 2:21-22. Thus( Lord) put in Acts 2:21 and Rom 10:13 as well. Jesus and his real religion would use a translation that supports his Fathers will= his name in his real bible over 7000 places. The darkness gives support to the removal of Gods name and use altered translations that mislead. That is undeniable reality. You best relook.

While I’m not a purist when it comes to translations, as even the KJV contains many issues, I believe understanding His Names—and particularly recognizing that Jesus has a God and Creator—is essential to grasping the true message of the Bible.
F2F

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #97]


They got Lord from their altered OT LORD at Joel 2:21-22--YHVH( Jehovah) is what God willed at Joel 2:21-22. Thus( Lord) put in Acts 2:21 and Rom 10:13 as well. Jesus and his real religion would use a translation that supports his Fathers will= his name in his real bible over 7000 places. The darkness gives support to the removal of Gods name and use altered translations that mislead. That is undeniable reality. You best relook.

OT was not Christ time, may I know what verse in the NT did Jesus taught His disciples/apostles to address the Father in His personal name?
As we professed to be followers of Christ as Christians, may we know that specific text?

[Capbook]

Can you address now my simple logic, logically, honestly and explicitly?
You always avoid it and change the topic.

Firstly, I’ve repeatedly asked you to demonstrate from the Bible the duality of natures in Jesus, but each time you've attempted to use John 1:18, which does not address Jesus' nature. Furthermore, I have shown you that the Bible teaches Jesus had a single nature, exactly the same as yours.

Here, we come again, Is Jesus words not sufficient to you? (Matt 26:63-64) Jesus acknowledged that He is the Son of man and the Son of God.

Now, this simple logic again I present to you of the same phrase;
1. Jesus as the Son of man, as His mother is human. Is He man or not?
2. Jesus as the Son of God, is He God or not? Why the honest logical answer to the first question cannot be applied to the second? Why?

Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people. Heb 2:17.

Every respect does not include a nature which you and I do not have!

Every respect means he was raised up out of sin's flesh - just as the Apostle Paul taught in Romans 1

concerning his Son who was a descendant of David with reference to the flesh, Ro 1:2–3.

Ok, if you honestly, logically and explicitly answer that simple logic above, it answers the two nature of Jesus. And also why did Jesus acknowledged that He is the Son of man and the Son of God?

In fact the very Gospel is based on Christ being born of a woman, Son of Man, Second Adam, Son of Abraham, Son of David...even in his Glorified state sitting at the right hand of God on high - how does he describe himself?

Yes, He also described Himself as the Son of God, and God, as the Father says to the Son.(Heb 1:8) and Jesus throne is forever and ever. If you refer it to the human king in Psa 45:6, tell me where's the human king's forever and ever throne in the NT.

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” Rev 22:16

So, what can we prove from the Bible about Jesus’ nature?

He was flesh and blood.

He was born into the fallen line of Adam.

He fully experienced suffering in the flesh, completely ceased to exist for three days, and was resurrected by His Father.

Yes, that proves Jesus human nature.

He was exalted to a position he had never held before because he obeyed God, even to the point of death.

Your logic is flawed, and it cannot be answered because it is not speaking about the Jesus of the Bible, but rather a version based on creeds and the imaginations of men.

Everyone may know what Christ became, but it is the man Jesus that you do not truly understand. If you truly knew this man, you would grasp the meaning behind all the verses that speak of His nature and how God condemned sin through the sacrifice of His Son on the cross.

If you opened your mind to the Word of God and began to read it for yourself, you would understand why it was necessary for Jesus to be like you in every way. Only then could you begin to comprehend the victory God achieved through His Son over the flesh of sin.

If you open your understanding to many verses that says Jesus is God, we can say that we really know Him in John 17:3. Even the Father had said to the Son, Your throne O God, is forever and ever, can a man have a throne that is forever and ever? If the Father's words not sufficient to you? How much more mine. If you do not believe the Father's words, how much more all others.

I sense your frustration in not being able to demonstrate the divinity of Jesus in terms of his nature. In fact, you cannot even show me evidence of a person living on after they die. If I were to ask you to prove the existence of an ethereal spirit living on after death, you would not have that evidence either.

If you do not believe the Father's words over the leadership's belief, that would also be a frustration from many believers. And I am confused now, I believe you are JW, what really is your belief about Jesus "a god or man?"

Many Christians never question or test their own beliefs until someone comes along and highlights the inconsistencies or weaknesses in them.

You have been tested and found wanting.

You present proof what we already believed, see below;
1. Jesus is man - I think many held that belief before the JW Church existed.
2. One God - I also think many held that belief before the existence of the JW Church.
3. What you had to prove here is where in the Word of God that says, Jesus is not God.

[servant1]

[Replying to face2face in post #101]


Jesus showed in the Lords prayer--his Fathers name is the #1 issue one must be concerned with, then his Fathers kingdom and will= over self.

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #102]

John 17:6--John 17:26-- In the Lords prayer=The #1 issue for all= his Fathers name, then his Fathers kingdom and will= over self.
Exodus 9:16--Have name declared in all the Earth
Praise his name-Psalm 99:6 99:3-96:2--
I kings 8:43-- Name must be known by all)= by following Jesus example-John 17:26 and keep on making his Fathers name known= the true followers do just that without fail.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #102]

John 17:6--John 17:26-- In the Lords prayer=The #1 issue for all= his Fathers name, then his Fathers kingdom and will= over self.
Exodus 9:16--Have name declared in all the Earth
Praise his name-Psalm 99:6 99:3-96:2--
I kings 8:43-- Name must be known by all)= by following Jesus example-John 17:26 and keep on making his Fathers name known= the true followers do just that without fail.

Again, may I know which of that verses that Christ taught His disciples/apostles to address the Father in His personal name (Tetragrammaton)?
I think the main issue that I commented is your Post#82, which I colored blue below;
Being followers of Christ as Christian, how would support that statement from Christ words?

"100% undeniable fact= Every translation on earth with the name YHVH)Jehovah) removed by satan's will through wicked men who had no right to remove it and replace it with titles( GOD--LORD) in the over 7000 places God willed it to be, show 100% whose will they give their support to on that important matter by the translation they use. The blind guides condemned the JW translators for standing up for Gods will( Matt 7:21) and putting his name back, even though they know 100% Gods name belongs in all those spots. In turn they give support to satan's will over Gods will on that important matter. How sad for them and all who listen to them. Not 1 who give support to satan's will over Gods will, will be saved.( Matt 7:21)"

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #106]

John 17:6-- John 17:26--how can one follow Jesus example if they are not sharing his Fathers name and keep on making it known=1+1=2--and i showed you all the OT scriptures--Its Gods will( Matt 7:21) that means a true follower does it without fail.

[face2face]

Here, we come again, Is Jesus words not sufficient to you? (Matt 26:63-64) Jesus acknowledged that He is the Son of man and the Son of God.

Now, this simple logic again I present to you of the same phrase;
1. Jesus as the Son of man, as His mother is human. Is He man or not?
2. Jesus as the Son of God, is He God or not? Why the honest logical answer to the first question cannot be applied to the second? Why?

I thought this was rather comical Capbook!

I agree with the bold text.

How many time did Jesus call himself the Son of Man?
How many times did Jesus call himself the Son of God?
How many times did Jesus call himself God the Son?

I'll answer these for you is reply is lacking!

F2F

[Capbook]

Here, we come again, Is Jesus words not sufficient to you? (Matt 26:63-64) Jesus acknowledged that He is the Son of man and the Son of God.

Now, this simple logic again I present to you of the same phrase;
1. Jesus as the Son of man, as His mother is human. Is He man or not?
2. Jesus as the Son of God, is He God or not? Why the honest logical answer to the first question cannot be applied to the second? Why?

I thought this was rather comical Capbook!

I agree with the bold text.

How many time did Jesus call himself the Son of Man?
How many times did Jesus call himself the Son of God?
How many times did Jesus call himself God the Son?

I'll answer these for you is reply is lacking!

F2F

Do Jesus words insufficient to you if He say those words just once?
You change the topic again, how about answering the simple logic, logically, honestly and explicitly?

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #106]

John 17:6-- John 17:26--how can one follow Jesus example if they are not sharing his Fathers name and keep on making it known=1+1=2--and i showed you all the OT scriptures--Its Gods will( Matt 7:21) that means a true follower does it without fail.

The subtopic of the verse labeled as "self-deception," that's Jesus conversation to some believers who said to Him "Lord, Lord," but does not do the will of the Father. Nowhere in there that Jesus taught them to address the Father in His personal name, the Tetragrammaton. Also, I already posted the two verses of John and it has nothing there also.

Concerning Self-Deception
Matt 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?'
23 Then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.'
NRSV