John 17:3

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

placebofactor
Sage
Posts: 763
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:37 pm
Been thanked: 66 times

John 17:3

Post #1

Post by placebofactor »

Four hundred years before the birth of Jesus, Malachi, the last prophet of the Old Testament wrote concerning the Jews, “You have profaned (my name) in that you say, the table of the LORD is polluted;” “I even I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because you do not lay it to heart.”

“You have departed out of the way, you have caused many to stumble at the law, you have corrupted the covenant of Levi,”

“But unto you who fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall.” This was the condition of the Jews when Jesus came to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Judas had already betrayed Jesus, and Jesus also knew beforehand that his disciples would forsake him. In John 17:3, Jesus prayed these words to his Father, “And this is life eternal, that they (his disciples) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

Eternal life is the great end that is set before us. Eternal life lies only in the knowledge of the Father and Jesus Christ. The Son of God was to die for us so that we could be brought before the throne of his Father.
Jesus did not pray nonchalantly to his Father, but with great love. And this is how we are to begin our prayer: “Our Father!”

John 17:1-3, The time had come for the Father to glorify his Son, to return to him the glory he had set aside to become a child born and a Son given. What was it Jesus was to be given? It is “Power over all flesh,”

Matthew 11:27, “All things are delivered unto me of my Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”

In Matthew 28:18, Jesus said, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Jesus could now give eternal life to as many as the Father gave him.

When Jesus said, in verse 3, “And this is life eternal, that they (the Jews) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”
When he spoke these words, “The only true God,” Jesus was contrasting his Father with,

1. Polytheism: The belief there is more than one God.
2. Philosophic naturalism is the idea that only natural laws and forces, as opposed to supernatural ones, operate in the universe.
3. Mystic pantheism, the doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and, conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and laws that are manifested in the existing universe.

When Jesus said, “And Jesus Christ whom you have sent,” this is the only place where he gives himself this compound name, using the term “Jesus Christ” in the strictest of senses.

“Jesus,” because he saves his people from their sins; and “Christ” as anointed with the fulness of the Holy Ghost for the exercise of his saving offices, Matthew 1:16, “Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”

“Who you have sent.” Sent in the abundance of Divine Authority and Power to save. With his words, the Lord positioned himself side by side with his Father, proving by implication his Divine nature. If Jesus were a mere creature, as many claim, eternal life with him would be impossible.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 10889
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1537 times
Been thanked: 434 times

Re: John 17:3

Post #2

Post by onewithhim »

placebofactor wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 12:07 pm Four hundred years before the birth of Jesus, Malachi, the last prophet of the Old Testament wrote concerning the Jews, “You have profaned (my name) in that you say, the table of the LORD is polluted;” “I even I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because you do not lay it to heart.”

“You have departed out of the way, you have caused many to stumble at the law, you have corrupted the covenant of Levi,”

“But unto you who fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall.” This was the condition of the Jews when Jesus came to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Judas had already betrayed Jesus, and Jesus also knew beforehand that his disciples would forsake him. In John 17:3, Jesus prayed these words to his Father, “And this is life eternal, that they (his disciples) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

Eternal life is the great end that is set before us. Eternal life lies only in the knowledge of the Father and Jesus Christ. The Son of God was to die for us so that we could be brought before the throne of his Father.
Jesus did not pray nonchalantly to his Father, but with great love. And this is how we are to begin our prayer: “Our Father!”

John 17:1-3, The time had come for the Father to glorify his Son, to return to him the glory he had set aside to become a child born and a Son given. What was it Jesus was to be given? It is “Power over all flesh,”

Matthew 11:27, “All things are delivered unto me of my Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”

In Matthew 28:18, Jesus said, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Jesus could now give eternal life to as many as the Father gave him.

When Jesus said, in verse 3, “And this is life eternal, that they (the Jews) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”
When he spoke these words, “The only true God,” Jesus was contrasting his Father with,

1. Polytheism: The belief there is more than one God.
2. Philosophic naturalism is the idea that only natural laws and forces, as opposed to supernatural ones, operate in the universe.
3. Mystic pantheism, the doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and, conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and laws that are manifested in the existing universe.

When Jesus said, “And Jesus Christ whom you have sent,” this is the only place where he gives himself this compound name, using the term “Jesus Christ” in the strictest of senses.

“Jesus,” because he saves his people from their sins; and “Christ” as anointed with the fulness of the Holy Ghost for the exercise of his saving offices, Matthew 1:16, “Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”

“Who you have sent.” Sent in the abundance of Divine Authority and Power to save. With his words, the Lord positioned himself side by side with his Father, proving by implication his Divine nature. If Jesus were a mere creature, as many claim, eternal life with him would be impossible.
Of course Jesus wasn't just a "mere creature." He was the firstborn of the Father, the only begotten. He was sent to Earth by the Father, to carry out God's plan to redeem mankind. He was a perfect man, and so could balance the scales of justice parallel to Adam.

There is no hint of "Divine nature" belonging to Jesus in John 17:3, at least not an equal standing with God. The verse shows Jesus saying that the Father is "the only true God." And of course we would want to get to know Jesus Christ, not because he was equal to the Father, which he was not, but because God sent him to redeem the world of mankind, to those who would respond. It is erroneous to equate Jesus with the Father just because they are referred to in the same sentence.

placebofactor
Sage
Posts: 763
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:37 pm
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: John 17:3

Post #3

Post by placebofactor »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 04, 2025 5:26 pm
placebofactor wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 12:07 pm Four hundred years before the birth of Jesus, Malachi, the last prophet of the Old Testament wrote concerning the Jews, “You have profaned (my name) in that you say, the table of the LORD is polluted;” “I even I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because you do not lay it to heart.”

“You have departed out of the way, you have caused many to stumble at the law, you have corrupted the covenant of Levi,”

“But unto you who fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall.” This was the condition of the Jews when Jesus came to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Judas had already betrayed Jesus, and Jesus also knew beforehand that his disciples would forsake him. In John 17:3, Jesus prayed these words to his Father, “And this is life eternal, that they (his disciples) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

Eternal life is the great end that is set before us. Eternal life lies only in the knowledge of the Father and Jesus Christ. The Son of God was to die for us so that we could be brought before the throne of his Father.
Jesus did not pray nonchalantly to his Father, but with great love. And this is how we are to begin our prayer: “Our Father!”

John 17:1-3, The time had come for the Father to glorify his Son, to return to him the glory he had set aside to become a child born and a Son given. What was it Jesus was to be given? It is “Power over all flesh,”

Matthew 11:27, “All things are delivered unto me of my Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”

In Matthew 28:18, Jesus said, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Jesus could now give eternal life to as many as the Father gave him.

When Jesus said, in verse 3, “And this is life eternal, that they (the Jews) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”
When he spoke these words, “The only true God,” Jesus was contrasting his Father with,

1. Polytheism: The belief there is more than one God.
2. Philosophic naturalism is the idea that only natural laws and forces, as opposed to supernatural ones, operate in the universe.
3. Mystic pantheism, the doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and, conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and laws that are manifested in the existing universe.

When Jesus said, “And Jesus Christ whom you have sent,” this is the only place where he gives himself this compound name, using the term “Jesus Christ” in the strictest of senses.

“Jesus,” because he saves his people from their sins; and “Christ” as anointed with the fulness of the Holy Ghost for the exercise of his saving offices, Matthew 1:16, “Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”

“Who you have sent.” Sent in the abundance of Divine Authority and Power to save. With his words, the Lord positioned himself side by side with his Father, proving by implication his Divine nature. If Jesus were a mere creature, as many claim, eternal life with him would be impossible.
Of course Jesus wasn't just a "mere creature." He was the firstborn of the Father, the only begotten. He was sent to Earth by the Father, to carry out God's plan to redeem mankind. He was a perfect man, and so could balance the scales of justice parallel to Adam.

There is no hint of "Divine nature" belonging to Jesus in John 17:3, at least not an equal standing with God. The verse shows Jesus saying that the Father is "the only true God." And of course we would want to get to know Jesus Christ, not because he was equal to the Father, which he was not, but because God sent him to redeem the world of mankind, to those who would respond. It is erroneous to equate Jesus with the Father just because they are referred to in the same sentence.
In your comments, you leave many unanswered questions.

What do you mean "Jesus was not just a 'mere creature?" What do you mean by creature? Never heard of an (un-mere) creature. If he's not a creature, he must be the God of Genesis 1:1 who created all creatures.

What do you mean when you say he is the firstborn of the Father? Are you saying he was created first, before anyone or anything? My Bible says Jesus created all things.

When was Jesus sent to the earth? Scriptures state that he created all things, including the earth.

What do you mean by a perfect man? What is a perfect man? Adam was not perfect; he was capable of sinning, and he did. Jesus could not sin. If you say he could have sinned, show us the verse. My understanding is that only God cannot sin.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 10889
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1537 times
Been thanked: 434 times

Re: John 17:3

Post #4

Post by onewithhim »

placebofactor wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 5:21 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 04, 2025 5:26 pm
placebofactor wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 12:07 pm Four hundred years before the birth of Jesus, Malachi, the last prophet of the Old Testament wrote concerning the Jews, “You have profaned (my name) in that you say, the table of the LORD is polluted;” “I even I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because you do not lay it to heart.”

“You have departed out of the way, you have caused many to stumble at the law, you have corrupted the covenant of Levi,”

“But unto you who fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall.” This was the condition of the Jews when Jesus came to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Judas had already betrayed Jesus, and Jesus also knew beforehand that his disciples would forsake him. In John 17:3, Jesus prayed these words to his Father, “And this is life eternal, that they (his disciples) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

Eternal life is the great end that is set before us. Eternal life lies only in the knowledge of the Father and Jesus Christ. The Son of God was to die for us so that we could be brought before the throne of his Father.
Jesus did not pray nonchalantly to his Father, but with great love. And this is how we are to begin our prayer: “Our Father!”

John 17:1-3, The time had come for the Father to glorify his Son, to return to him the glory he had set aside to become a child born and a Son given. What was it Jesus was to be given? It is “Power over all flesh,”

Matthew 11:27, “All things are delivered unto me of my Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”

In Matthew 28:18, Jesus said, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Jesus could now give eternal life to as many as the Father gave him.

When Jesus said, in verse 3, “And this is life eternal, that they (the Jews) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”
When he spoke these words, “The only true God,” Jesus was contrasting his Father with,

1. Polytheism: The belief there is more than one God.
2. Philosophic naturalism is the idea that only natural laws and forces, as opposed to supernatural ones, operate in the universe.
3. Mystic pantheism, the doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and, conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and laws that are manifested in the existing universe.

When Jesus said, “And Jesus Christ whom you have sent,” this is the only place where he gives himself this compound name, using the term “Jesus Christ” in the strictest of senses.

“Jesus,” because he saves his people from their sins; and “Christ” as anointed with the fulness of the Holy Ghost for the exercise of his saving offices, Matthew 1:16, “Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”

“Who you have sent.” Sent in the abundance of Divine Authority and Power to save. With his words, the Lord positioned himself side by side with his Father, proving by implication his Divine nature. If Jesus were a mere creature, as many claim, eternal life with him would be impossible.
Of course Jesus wasn't just a "mere creature." He was the firstborn of the Father, the only begotten. He was sent to Earth by the Father, to carry out God's plan to redeem mankind. He was a perfect man, and so could balance the scales of justice parallel to Adam.

There is no hint of "Divine nature" belonging to Jesus in John 17:3, at least not an equal standing with God. The verse shows Jesus saying that the Father is "the only true God." And of course we would want to get to know Jesus Christ, not because he was equal to the Father, which he was not, but because God sent him to redeem the world of mankind, to those who would respond. It is erroneous to equate Jesus with the Father just because they are referred to in the same sentence.
In your comments, you leave many unanswered questions.

What do you mean "Jesus was not just a 'mere creature?" What do you mean by creature? Never heard of an (un-mere) creature. If he's not a creature, he must be the God of Genesis 1:1 who created all creatures.
Jesus was not a mere human like other humans. He was more than that. He was a creature but a perfect one, and was with God before he came to the earth. No other man could have balanced the scales of justice because no other man was perfect. He had a unique assignment that no other man could fulfill. He obeyed God, the Father, to the end of his human life. Then God raised him back to life and he went back to "my God." (John 20:17)

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 10889
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1537 times
Been thanked: 434 times

Re: John 17:3

Post #5

Post by onewithhim »

placebofactor wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 5:21 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 04, 2025 5:26 pm
placebofactor wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 12:07 pm Four hundred years before the birth of Jesus, Malachi, the last prophet of the Old Testament wrote concerning the Jews, “You have profaned (my name) in that you say, the table of the LORD is polluted;” “I even I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because you do not lay it to heart.”

“You have departed out of the way, you have caused many to stumble at the law, you have corrupted the covenant of Levi,”

“But unto you who fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall.” This was the condition of the Jews when Jesus came to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Judas had already betrayed Jesus, and Jesus also knew beforehand that his disciples would forsake him. In John 17:3, Jesus prayed these words to his Father, “And this is life eternal, that they (his disciples) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

Eternal life is the great end that is set before us. Eternal life lies only in the knowledge of the Father and Jesus Christ. The Son of God was to die for us so that we could be brought before the throne of his Father.
Jesus did not pray nonchalantly to his Father, but with great love. And this is how we are to begin our prayer: “Our Father!”

John 17:1-3, The time had come for the Father to glorify his Son, to return to him the glory he had set aside to become a child born and a Son given. What was it Jesus was to be given? It is “Power over all flesh,”

Matthew 11:27, “All things are delivered unto me of my Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”

In Matthew 28:18, Jesus said, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Jesus could now give eternal life to as many as the Father gave him.

When Jesus said, in verse 3, “And this is life eternal, that they (the Jews) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”
When he spoke these words, “The only true God,” Jesus was contrasting his Father with,

1. Polytheism: The belief there is more than one God.
2. Philosophic naturalism is the idea that only natural laws and forces, as opposed to supernatural ones, operate in the universe.
3. Mystic pantheism, the doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and, conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and laws that are manifested in the existing universe.

When Jesus said, “And Jesus Christ whom you have sent,” this is the only place where he gives himself this compound name, using the term “Jesus Christ” in the strictest of senses.

“Jesus,” because he saves his people from their sins; and “Christ” as anointed with the fulness of the Holy Ghost for the exercise of his saving offices, Matthew 1:16, “Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”

“Who you have sent.” Sent in the abundance of Divine Authority and Power to save. With his words, the Lord positioned himself side by side with his Father, proving by implication his Divine nature. If Jesus were a mere creature, as many claim, eternal life with him would be impossible.
Of course Jesus wasn't just a "mere creature." He was the firstborn of the Father, the only begotten. He was sent to Earth by the Father, to carry out God's plan to redeem mankind. He was a perfect man, and so could balance the scales of justice parallel to Adam.

There is no hint of "Divine nature" belonging to Jesus in John 17:3, at least not an equal standing with God. The verse shows Jesus saying that the Father is "the only true God." And of course we would want to get to know Jesus Christ, not because he was equal to the Father, which he was not, but because God sent him to redeem the world of mankind, to those who would respond. It is erroneous to equate Jesus with the Father just because they are referred to in the same sentence.
In your comments, you leave many unanswered questions.

What do you mean "Jesus was not just a 'mere creature?" What do you mean by creature? Never heard of an (un-mere) creature. If he's not a creature, he must be the God of Genesis 1:1 who created all creatures.

What do you mean when you say he is the firstborn of the Father? Are you saying he was created first, before anyone or anything? My Bible says Jesus created all things.

When was Jesus sent to the earth? Scriptures state that he created all things, including the earth.

What do you mean by a perfect man? What is a perfect man? Adam was not perfect; he was capable of sinning, and he did. Jesus could not sin. If you say he could have sinned, show us the verse. My understanding is that only God cannot sin.
Adam WAS perfect. God doesn't create things that are imperfect, that have defects. "He is the Rock, his work is perfect" (Deut. 32:4, KJV) All created beings have free will and could always sin if they so chose. Jesus had the choice, to either remain faithful or disobey, just like Adam did. He could have disobeyed but CHOSE not to. That is why he was exalted by God after his death and resurrection. (Phil. 2:8,9) It would have been nothing special for him to become a ransom if he couldn't have disobeyed. Give Jesus some credit. He wanted so much not to be in a position to be called a blasphemer, and he wished he didn't have to do it, but he agonizingly stuck to his purpose. It wasn't easy. It would have been easy if he could not disobey.

placebofactor
Sage
Posts: 763
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:37 pm
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: John 17:3

Post #6

Post by placebofactor »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 9:21 am
placebofactor wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 5:21 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 04, 2025 5:26 pm
placebofactor wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 12:07 pm Four hundred years before the birth of Jesus, Malachi, the last prophet of the Old Testament wrote concerning the Jews, “You have profaned (my name) in that you say, the table of the LORD is polluted;” “I even I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because you do not lay it to heart.”

“You have departed out of the way, you have caused many to stumble at the law, you have corrupted the covenant of Levi,”

“But unto you who fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall.” This was the condition of the Jews when Jesus came to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Judas had already betrayed Jesus, and Jesus also knew beforehand that his disciples would forsake him. In John 17:3, Jesus prayed these words to his Father, “And this is life eternal, that they (his disciples) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

Eternal life is the great end that is set before us. Eternal life lies only in the knowledge of the Father and Jesus Christ. The Son of God was to die for us so that we could be brought before the throne of his Father.
Jesus did not pray nonchalantly to his Father, but with great love. And this is how we are to begin our prayer: “Our Father!”

John 17:1-3, The time had come for the Father to glorify his Son, to return to him the glory he had set aside to become a child born and a Son given. What was it Jesus was to be given? It is “Power over all flesh,”

Matthew 11:27, “All things are delivered unto me of my Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”

In Matthew 28:18, Jesus said, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Jesus could now give eternal life to as many as the Father gave him.

When Jesus said, in verse 3, “And this is life eternal, that they (the Jews) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”
When he spoke these words, “The only true God,” Jesus was contrasting his Father with,

1. Polytheism: The belief there is more than one God.
2. Philosophic naturalism is the idea that only natural laws and forces, as opposed to supernatural ones, operate in the universe.
3. Mystic pantheism, the doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and, conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and laws that are manifested in the existing universe.

When Jesus said, “And Jesus Christ whom you have sent,” this is the only place where he gives himself this compound name, using the term “Jesus Christ” in the strictest of senses.

“Jesus,” because he saves his people from their sins; and “Christ” as anointed with the fulness of the Holy Ghost for the exercise of his saving offices, Matthew 1:16, “Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”

“Who you have sent.” Sent in the abundance of Divine Authority and Power to save. With his words, the Lord positioned himself side by side with his Father, proving by implication his Divine nature. If Jesus were a mere creature, as many claim, eternal life with him would be impossible.
Of course Jesus wasn't just a "mere creature." He was the firstborn of the Father, the only begotten. He was sent to Earth by the Father, to carry out God's plan to redeem mankind. He was a perfect man, and so could balance the scales of justice parallel to Adam.

There is no hint of "Divine nature" belonging to Jesus in John 17:3, at least not an equal standing with God. The verse shows Jesus saying that the Father is "the only true God." And of course we would want to get to know Jesus Christ, not because he was equal to the Father, which he was not, but because God sent him to redeem the world of mankind, to those who would respond. It is erroneous to equate Jesus with the Father just because they are referred to in the same sentence.
In your comments, you leave many unanswered questions.

What do you mean "Jesus was not just a 'mere creature?" What do you mean by creature? Never heard of an (un-mere) creature. If he's not a creature, he must be the God of Genesis 1:1 who created all creatures.

What do you mean when you say he is the firstborn of the Father? Are you saying he was created first, before anyone or anything? My Bible says Jesus created all things.

When was Jesus sent to the earth? Scriptures state that he created all things, including the earth.

What do you mean by a perfect man? What is a perfect man? Adam was not perfect; he was capable of sinning, and he did. Jesus could not sin. If you say he could have sinned, show us the verse. My understanding is that only God cannot sin.
Adam WAS perfect. God doesn't create things that are imperfect, that have defects. "He is the Rock, his work is perfect" (Deut. 32:4, KJV) All created beings have free will and could always sin if they so chose. Jesus had the choice, to either remain faithful or disobey, just like Adam did. He could have disobeyed but CHOSE not to. That is why he was exalted by God after his death and resurrection. (Phil. 2:8,9) It would have been nothing special for him to become a ransom if he couldn't have disobeyed. Give Jesus some credit. He wanted so much not to be in a position to be called a blasphemer, and he wished he didn't have to do it, but he agonizingly stuck to his purpose. It wasn't easy. It would have been easy if he could not disobey.
I have provided the Witnesses with 100 verses across several of my topics that prove Jesus Christ is God, to the glory of his Father in heaven. Jesus' Father calls him God, yet they deny it. How can anyone deny that Jesus is God when his own Father declared him to be God? To reject the words of the Father is blasphemous. Thomas, Paul, Luke, and Matthew all refer to Jesus as God; Isaiah also calls Jesus God. Solomon and John tell us that, as the Word of God, Jesus spoke everything into existence. Revelation states that Jesus claims to be the "Almighty."

Adam was not perfect; God stated that everything he created was "good." Good does not mean perfect. Good implies being agreeable, beautiful, fair, etc. Jesus was incapable of sinning; he is the Creator. Your own Bible asserts that Jesus created all things. The writers of the N.W.T. added " (other) " things in brackets, but "other" is not found in any manuscripts.

Jesus was prophesied as a Lamb slain before the foundation of the earth was laid, a Lamb without spot or blemish; he was the perfect sacrifice. Isaiah tells us that the government would rest on his shoulders, that Jesus is the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, and that there would be no end to his government.

If he were capable of sinning, how could he have saved his people from their sins? He was God with us, God manifest in the flesh; his title of Savior indicates he was incapable of sinning. Jesus was not the twilight of the world; he was the Light and the Life of the world.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 10889
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1537 times
Been thanked: 434 times

Re: John 17:3

Post #7

Post by onewithhim »

placebofactor wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 12:04 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 9:21 am
placebofactor wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 5:21 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 04, 2025 5:26 pm
placebofactor wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 12:07 pm Four hundred years before the birth of Jesus, Malachi, the last prophet of the Old Testament wrote concerning the Jews, “You have profaned (my name) in that you say, the table of the LORD is polluted;” “I even I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because you do not lay it to heart.”

“You have departed out of the way, you have caused many to stumble at the law, you have corrupted the covenant of Levi,”

“But unto you who fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall.” This was the condition of the Jews when Jesus came to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Judas had already betrayed Jesus, and Jesus also knew beforehand that his disciples would forsake him. In John 17:3, Jesus prayed these words to his Father, “And this is life eternal, that they (his disciples) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

Eternal life is the great end that is set before us. Eternal life lies only in the knowledge of the Father and Jesus Christ. The Son of God was to die for us so that we could be brought before the throne of his Father.
Jesus did not pray nonchalantly to his Father, but with great love. And this is how we are to begin our prayer: “Our Father!”

John 17:1-3, The time had come for the Father to glorify his Son, to return to him the glory he had set aside to become a child born and a Son given. What was it Jesus was to be given? It is “Power over all flesh,”

Matthew 11:27, “All things are delivered unto me of my Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”

In Matthew 28:18, Jesus said, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Jesus could now give eternal life to as many as the Father gave him.

When Jesus said, in verse 3, “And this is life eternal, that they (the Jews) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”
When he spoke these words, “The only true God,” Jesus was contrasting his Father with,

1. Polytheism: The belief there is more than one God.
2. Philosophic naturalism is the idea that only natural laws and forces, as opposed to supernatural ones, operate in the universe.
3. Mystic pantheism, the doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and, conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and laws that are manifested in the existing universe.

When Jesus said, “And Jesus Christ whom you have sent,” this is the only place where he gives himself this compound name, using the term “Jesus Christ” in the strictest of senses.

“Jesus,” because he saves his people from their sins; and “Christ” as anointed with the fulness of the Holy Ghost for the exercise of his saving offices, Matthew 1:16, “Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”

“Who you have sent.” Sent in the abundance of Divine Authority and Power to save. With his words, the Lord positioned himself side by side with his Father, proving by implication his Divine nature. If Jesus were a mere creature, as many claim, eternal life with him would be impossible.
Of course Jesus wasn't just a "mere creature." He was the firstborn of the Father, the only begotten. He was sent to Earth by the Father, to carry out God's plan to redeem mankind. He was a perfect man, and so could balance the scales of justice parallel to Adam.

There is no hint of "Divine nature" belonging to Jesus in John 17:3, at least not an equal standing with God. The verse shows Jesus saying that the Father is "the only true God." And of course we would want to get to know Jesus Christ, not because he was equal to the Father, which he was not, but because God sent him to redeem the world of mankind, to those who would respond. It is erroneous to equate Jesus with the Father just because they are referred to in the same sentence.
In your comments, you leave many unanswered questions.

What do you mean "Jesus was not just a 'mere creature?" What do you mean by creature? Never heard of an (un-mere) creature. If he's not a creature, he must be the God of Genesis 1:1 who created all creatures.

What do you mean when you say he is the firstborn of the Father? Are you saying he was created first, before anyone or anything? My Bible says Jesus created all things.

When was Jesus sent to the earth? Scriptures state that he created all things, including the earth.

What do you mean by a perfect man? What is a perfect man? Adam was not perfect; he was capable of sinning, and he did. Jesus could not sin. If you say he could have sinned, show us the verse. My understanding is that only God cannot sin.
Adam WAS perfect. God doesn't create things that are imperfect, that have defects. "He is the Rock, his work is perfect" (Deut. 32:4, KJV) All created beings have free will and could always sin if they so chose. Jesus had the choice, to either remain faithful or disobey, just like Adam did. He could have disobeyed but CHOSE not to. That is why he was exalted by God after his death and resurrection. (Phil. 2:8,9) It would have been nothing special for him to become a ransom if he couldn't have disobeyed. Give Jesus some credit. He wanted so much not to be in a position to be called a blasphemer, and he wished he didn't have to do it, but he agonizingly stuck to his purpose. It wasn't easy. It would have been easy if he could not disobey.
I have provided the Witnesses with 100 verses across several of my topics that prove Jesus Christ is God, to the glory of his Father in heaven. Jesus' Father calls him God, yet they deny it. How can anyone deny that Jesus is God when his own Father declared him to be God?
Where in the Scriptures does God, the Father, call Jesus God? All of the Bible, besides your mere handful of twisted verses, emphasizes Jehovah to be Jesus' Father and Jesus' God. Just one example: John 20:17.

placebofactor
Sage
Posts: 763
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:37 pm
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: John 17:3

Post #8

Post by placebofactor »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 2:06 pm
placebofactor wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 12:04 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 9:21 am
placebofactor wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 5:21 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 04, 2025 5:26 pm
Of course Jesus wasn't just a "mere creature." He was the firstborn of the Father, the only begotten. He was sent to Earth by the Father, to carry out God's plan to redeem mankind. He was a perfect man, and so could balance the scales of justice parallel to Adam.

There is no hint of "Divine nature" belonging to Jesus in John 17:3, at least not an equal standing with God. The verse shows Jesus saying that the Father is "the only true God." And of course we would want to get to know Jesus Christ, not because he was equal to the Father, which he was not, but because God sent him to redeem the world of mankind, to those who would respond. It is erroneous to equate Jesus with the Father just because they are referred to in the same sentence.
In your comments, you leave many unanswered questions.

What do you mean "Jesus was not just a 'mere creature?" What do you mean by creature? Never heard of an (un-mere) creature. If he's not a creature, he must be the God of Genesis 1:1 who created all creatures.

What do you mean when you say he is the firstborn of the Father? Are you saying he was created first, before anyone or anything? My Bible says Jesus created all things.

When was Jesus sent to the earth? Scriptures state that he created all things, including the earth.

What do you mean by a perfect man? What is a perfect man? Adam was not perfect; he was capable of sinning, and he did. Jesus could not sin. If you say he could have sinned, show us the verse. My understanding is that only God cannot sin.
Adam WAS perfect. God doesn't create things that are imperfect, that have defects. "He is the Rock, his work is perfect" (Deut. 32:4, KJV) All created beings have free will and could always sin if they so chose. Jesus had the choice, to either remain faithful or disobey, just like Adam did. He could have disobeyed but CHOSE not to. That is why he was exalted by God after his death and resurrection. (Phil. 2:8,9) It would have been nothing special for him to become a ransom if he couldn't have disobeyed. Give Jesus some credit. He wanted so much not to be in a position to be called a blasphemer, and he wished he didn't have to do it, but he agonizingly stuck to his purpose. It wasn't easy. It would have been easy if he could not disobey.
I have provided the Witnesses with 100 verses across several of my topics that prove Jesus Christ is God, to the glory of his Father in heaven. Jesus' Father calls him God, yet they deny it. How can anyone deny that Jesus is God when his own Father declared him to be God?
Where in the Scriptures does God, the Father, call Jesus God? All of the Bible, besides your mere handful of twisted verses, emphasizes Jehovah to be Jesus' Father and Jesus' God. Just one example: John 20:17.
In both Psalms 45:6-7, and in Hebrews 1:8, the Father said of his Son, "Your throne, O God (Theos), is for ever and ever." Psalms 45:6, the Father is speaking of his Son, "Your throne, O God (Elohim), is for ever and ever: The Father calls his Son "Elohim," the same Hebrew word found in Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth." Then the Fater said, speaking of his Son, "God (Elohim), your God (Elohim), has anointed you with the oil of gladness above they fellows."

Now if the Father calls his Son God (Elohim, or theos) that's good enough for me. Who am I to deny the words of the Father?

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 10889
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1537 times
Been thanked: 434 times

Re: John 17:3

Post #9

Post by onewithhim »

placebofactor wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 12:04 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 9:21 am
placebofactor wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 5:21 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 04, 2025 5:26 pm
placebofactor wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 12:07 pm Four hundred years before the birth of Jesus, Malachi, the last prophet of the Old Testament wrote concerning the Jews, “You have profaned (my name) in that you say, the table of the LORD is polluted;” “I even I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because you do not lay it to heart.”

“You have departed out of the way, you have caused many to stumble at the law, you have corrupted the covenant of Levi,”

“But unto you who fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall.” This was the condition of the Jews when Jesus came to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Judas had already betrayed Jesus, and Jesus also knew beforehand that his disciples would forsake him. In John 17:3, Jesus prayed these words to his Father, “And this is life eternal, that they (his disciples) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

Eternal life is the great end that is set before us. Eternal life lies only in the knowledge of the Father and Jesus Christ. The Son of God was to die for us so that we could be brought before the throne of his Father.
Jesus did not pray nonchalantly to his Father, but with great love. And this is how we are to begin our prayer: “Our Father!”

John 17:1-3, The time had come for the Father to glorify his Son, to return to him the glory he had set aside to become a child born and a Son given. What was it Jesus was to be given? It is “Power over all flesh,”

Matthew 11:27, “All things are delivered unto me of my Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”

In Matthew 28:18, Jesus said, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Jesus could now give eternal life to as many as the Father gave him.

When Jesus said, in verse 3, “And this is life eternal, that they (the Jews) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”
When he spoke these words, “The only true God,” Jesus was contrasting his Father with,

1. Polytheism: The belief there is more than one God.
2. Philosophic naturalism is the idea that only natural laws and forces, as opposed to supernatural ones, operate in the universe.
3. Mystic pantheism, the doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and, conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and laws that are manifested in the existing universe.

When Jesus said, “And Jesus Christ whom you have sent,” this is the only place where he gives himself this compound name, using the term “Jesus Christ” in the strictest of senses.

“Jesus,” because he saves his people from their sins; and “Christ” as anointed with the fulness of the Holy Ghost for the exercise of his saving offices, Matthew 1:16, “Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”

“Who you have sent.” Sent in the abundance of Divine Authority and Power to save. With his words, the Lord positioned himself side by side with his Father, proving by implication his Divine nature. If Jesus were a mere creature, as many claim, eternal life with him would be impossible.
Of course Jesus wasn't just a "mere creature." He was the firstborn of the Father, the only begotten. He was sent to Earth by the Father, to carry out God's plan to redeem mankind. He was a perfect man, and so could balance the scales of justice parallel to Adam.

There is no hint of "Divine nature" belonging to Jesus in John 17:3, at least not an equal standing with God. The verse shows Jesus saying that the Father is "the only true God." And of course we would want to get to know Jesus Christ, not because he was equal to the Father, which he was not, but because God sent him to redeem the world of mankind, to those who would respond. It is erroneous to equate Jesus with the Father just because they are referred to in the same sentence.
In your comments, you leave many unanswered questions.

What do you mean "Jesus was not just a 'mere creature?" What do you mean by creature? Never heard of an (un-mere) creature. If he's not a creature, he must be the God of Genesis 1:1 who created all creatures.

What do you mean when you say he is the firstborn of the Father? Are you saying he was created first, before anyone or anything? My Bible says Jesus created all things.

When was Jesus sent to the earth? Scriptures state that he created all things, including the earth.

What do you mean by a perfect man? What is a perfect man? Adam was not perfect; he was capable of sinning, and he did. Jesus could not sin. If you say he could have sinned, show us the verse. My understanding is that only God cannot sin.
Adam WAS perfect. God doesn't create things that are imperfect, that have defects. "He is the Rock, his work is perfect" (Deut. 32:4, KJV) All created beings have free will and could always sin if they so chose. Jesus had the choice, to either remain faithful or disobey, just like Adam did. He could have disobeyed but CHOSE not to. That is why he was exalted by God after his death and resurrection. (Phil. 2:8,9) It would have been nothing special for him to become a ransom if he couldn't have disobeyed. Give Jesus some credit. He wanted so much not to be in a position to be called a blasphemer, and he wished he didn't have to do it, but he agonizingly stuck to his purpose. It wasn't easy. It would have been easy if he could not disobey.
I have provided the Witnesses with 100 verses across several of my topics that prove Jesus Christ is God, to the glory of his Father in heaven. Jesus' Father calls him God, yet they deny it. How can anyone deny that Jesus is God when his own Father declared him to be God? To reject the words of the Father is blasphemous. Thomas, Paul, Luke, and Matthew all refer to Jesus as God; Isaiah also calls Jesus God. Solomon and John tell us that, as the Word of God, Jesus spoke everything into existence. Revelation states that Jesus claims to be the "Almighty."

Adam was not perfect; God stated that everything he created was "good." Good does not mean perfect. Good implies being agreeable, beautiful, fair, etc. Jesus was incapable of sinning; he is the Creator. Your own Bible asserts that Jesus created all things. The writers of the N.W.T. added " (other) " things in brackets, but "other" is not found in any manuscripts.

Jesus was prophesied as a Lamb slain before the foundation of the earth was laid, a Lamb without spot or blemish; he was the perfect sacrifice. Isaiah tells us that the government would rest on his shoulders, that Jesus is the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, and that there would be no end to his government.

If he were capable of sinning, how could he have saved his people from their sins? He was God with us, God manifest in the flesh; his title of Savior indicates he was incapable of sinning. Jesus was not the twilight of the world; he was the Light and the Life of the world.
And more so because he chose not to sin. If he was incapable of sinning, there would be no victory for him in his ransom sacrifice. Why did he sweat blood when praying to his Father and his God? (Luke 22:44) Because he knew he had to stay on the course mapped out by his Father; if he failed the ransom would be null and void. He had the choice. He didn't want to be branded as a blasphemer, and asked his Father to let him not do this if possible, but then he said that his Father's will would be done. To be branded a blasphemer was why he had bloody sweat coming out of his face. It was anathema to him to be thought of as a blasphemer. If he couldn't choose, he wouldn't have worried about being killed as a blasphemer. Everything would have been set in stone and it would all have been rote.

placebofactor
Sage
Posts: 763
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:37 pm
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: John 17:3

Post #10

Post by placebofactor »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:43 pm
placebofactor wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 12:04 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 9:21 am
placebofactor wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 5:21 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 04, 2025 5:26 pm
Of course Jesus wasn't just a "mere creature." He was the firstborn of the Father, the only begotten. He was sent to Earth by the Father, to carry out God's plan to redeem mankind. He was a perfect man, and so could balance the scales of justice parallel to Adam.

There is no hint of "Divine nature" belonging to Jesus in John 17:3, at least not an equal standing with God. The verse shows Jesus saying that the Father is "the only true God." And of course we would want to get to know Jesus Christ, not because he was equal to the Father, which he was not, but because God sent him to redeem the world of mankind, to those who would respond. It is erroneous to equate Jesus with the Father just because they are referred to in the same sentence.
In your comments, you leave many unanswered questions.

What do you mean "Jesus was not just a 'mere creature?" What do you mean by creature? Never heard of an (un-mere) creature. If he's not a creature, he must be the God of Genesis 1:1 who created all creatures.

What do you mean when you say he is the firstborn of the Father? Are you saying he was created first, before anyone or anything? My Bible says Jesus created all things.

When was Jesus sent to the earth? Scriptures state that he created all things, including the earth.

What do you mean by a perfect man? What is a perfect man? Adam was not perfect; he was capable of sinning, and he did. Jesus could not sin. If you say he could have sinned, show us the verse. My understanding is that only God cannot sin.
Adam WAS perfect. God doesn't create things that are imperfect, that have defects. "He is the Rock, his work is perfect" (Deut. 32:4, KJV) All created beings have free will and could always sin if they so chose. Jesus had the choice, to either remain faithful or disobey, just like Adam did. He could have disobeyed but CHOSE not to. That is why he was exalted by God after his death and resurrection. (Phil. 2:8,9) It would have been nothing special for him to become a ransom if he couldn't have disobeyed. Give Jesus some credit. He wanted so much not to be in a position to be called a blasphemer, and he wished he didn't have to do it, but he agonizingly stuck to his purpose. It wasn't easy. It would have been easy if he could not disobey.
I have provided the Witnesses with 100 verses across several of my topics that prove Jesus Christ is God, to the glory of his Father in heaven. Jesus' Father calls him God, yet they deny it. How can anyone deny that Jesus is God when his own Father declared him to be God? To reject the words of the Father is blasphemous. Thomas, Paul, Luke, and Matthew all refer to Jesus as God; Isaiah also calls Jesus God. Solomon and John tell us that, as the Word of God, Jesus spoke everything into existence. Revelation states that Jesus claims to be the "Almighty."

Adam was not perfect; God stated that everything he created was "good." Good does not mean perfect. Good implies being agreeable, beautiful, fair, etc. Jesus was incapable of sinning; he is the Creator. Your own Bible asserts that Jesus created all things. The writers of the N.W.T. added " (other) " things in brackets, but "other" is not found in any manuscripts.

Jesus was prophesied as a Lamb slain before the foundation of the earth was laid, a Lamb without spot or blemish; he was the perfect sacrifice. Isaiah tells us that the government would rest on his shoulders, that Jesus is the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, and that there would be no end to his government.

If he were capable of sinning, how could he have saved his people from their sins? He was God with us, God manifest in the flesh; his title of Savior indicates he was incapable of sinning. Jesus was not the twilight of the world; he was the Light and the Life of the world.
And more so because he chose not to sin. If he was incapable of sinning, there would be no victory for him in his ransom sacrifice. Why did he sweat blood when praying to his Father and his God? (Luke 22:44) Because he knew he had to stay on the course mapped out by his Father; if he failed the ransom would be null and void. He had the choice. He didn't want to be branded as a blasphemer, and asked his Father to let him not do this if possible, but then he said that his Father's will would be done. To be branded a blasphemer was why he had bloody sweat coming out of his face. It was anathema to him to be thought of as a blasphemer. If he couldn't choose, he wouldn't have worried about being killed as a blasphemer. Everything would have been set in stone and it would all have been rote.
Let me begin with this Jehovah's Witness term, "Ransome Sacrifice." Can't find that in my Bible. Excuse me, but Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith. He could not have failed; men fail, but Jesus did not. Read the following carefully, then apologize to us Christians.

John 10:15-18, These are Jesus' words. "I lay down my life for the sheep. Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it up. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself, I have POWER to lay it down, and I have POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN."

In verse 25, Jesus is speaking to the doubters of yesterday and today when he said, "I told you, and you believed not the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. but you believe not, because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of MY HAND."

Jesus was the shepherd who came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Because Witnesses believe Jesus is nothing but a man, I understand why you think as you think. And because Witnesses deny the person of the Holy Spirit, they will never understand the things of God. Followers of a false shepherd called the Watchtower, whose history was founded on a false prophet, Taze Russel.

If Jesus Christ is not the God of the O.T. and the new, millions of Christians have died for nothing, even men like Peter, Paul, and the rest of them. Do you honestly think they would have died if they thought Jesus was nothing but a man? If you do, you must think they were stupid.

The blind leading the blind, followers having closed minds, following shadows of truth.

Post Reply