Does the Bible contradict itself?

[Difflugia]

there cannot be any contradiction

And yet there are.

You need to prove that.

OK. At most two of the following three can be true:

• The Bible is inerrant.
• Ecclesiastes 9:25—"For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing. They also have no more reward, because the memory of them is forgotten."
• 1 Samuel 28:15—"And Samuel said to Saul, 'Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up?'"

The common Witness apologetic tack is to claim that the biblical narrator is wrong and it's not really Samuel that "said" this thing to Saul. In fact, the NWT puts scare quotes around Samuel's name wherever we see it in the story:



This kind of apologetic trick is fine if we're allowed to believe that the biblical narrator is wrong, but this is TD&D, where the entire Bible must be treated as authoritative. With that in mind, here's the question for debate:

Can Ecclesiastes 9 and 1 Samuel 28 be harmonized if both must be inerrant and authoritative? Or do they contradict such that one or the other must be changed?

[Capbook]

The old serpent, who is so called, because, of old, from the beginning, almost as soon as the world was, he appeared in the form of a serpent, or rather made use of it as an instrument and means, by which he seduced Eve.

That's a fine theological conclusion, but the Bible doesn't actually say those together. Paul says that a serpent beguiled Eve and the Revelator says that Satan is a serpent. You can combine those if you want, but that puts you in the position of claiming that the Bible says something it doesn't in order to justify that it doesn't say something that it does.

It does, the earliest prophecy of hope in Gen 3:15, where it predicts about the seed of a woman Mary, Jesus mother and Satan.

It was to them, but I still believe it was the fallen angel, the same belief to the "spirit of the glass."

The Bible says that it was Samuel, though.

Certainly, it was not actually Samuel that the medium had contacted. Samuel was dead and a person who is dead “goes back to his ground; in that day, his thoughts do perish.” (Psalm 146:4) Samuel was a prophet God, so he had rejected mediums. Also, while he was living, Samuel declined to speak with rebellious Saul.(1 Sam 15:26)

If you believe in Bible's inerrancy, assumptions would be there is no contradiction, the medium that saw the old man as Samuel, same as Eve saw and converse with the serpent unknowing it was Satan.

Assuming that it's inerrant is one thing; changing it so that it says something different is another.

In continual, before Samuel died he had refused to go back to the rebellious Saul. That old man is not Samuel just like Eve saw that serpent not knowing it was Satan.

1Sa 15:26 And Samuel said to Saul, “I will not return with you. For you have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected you from being king over Israel.”

[Capbook]

The old serpent, who is so called, because, of old, from the beginning, almost as soon as the world was, he appeared in the form of a serpent, or rather made use of it as an instrument and means, by which he seduced Eve.

That's a fine theological conclusion, but the Bible doesn't actually say those together. Paul says that a serpent beguiled Eve and the Revelator says that Satan is a serpent. You can combine those if you want, but that puts you in the position of claiming that the Bible says something it doesn't in order to justify that it doesn't say something that it does.

It does, the earliest prophecy of hope in Gen 3:15, where it predicts about the seed of a woman Mary, Jesus mother and Satan.

It was to them, but I still believe it was the fallen angel, the same belief to the "spirit of the glass."

The Bible says that it was Samuel, though.

Certainly, it was not actually Samuel that the medium had contacted. Samuel was dead and a person who is dead “goes back to his ground; in that day, his thoughts do perish.” (Psalm 146:4) Samuel was a prophet God, so he had rejected mediums. Also, while he was living, Samuel declined to speak with rebellious Saul.(1 Sam 15:26)

If you believe in Bible's inerrancy, assumptions would be there is no contradiction, the medium that saw the old man as Samuel, same as Eve saw and converse with the serpent unknowing it was Satan.

Assuming that it's inerrant is one thing; changing it so that it says something different is another.

In continual, before Samuel died he had refused to go back to the rebellious Saul. That old man is not Samuel just like Eve saw that serpent not knowing it was Satan.

1Sa 15:26 And Samuel said to Saul, “I will not return with you. For you have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected you from being king over Israel.”

[Capbook]

The old serpent, who is so called, because, of old, from the beginning, almost as soon as the world was, he appeared in the form of a serpent, or rather made use of it as an instrument and means, by which he seduced Eve.

That's a fine theological conclusion, but the Bible doesn't actually say those together. Paul says that a serpent beguiled Eve and the Revelator says that Satan is a serpent. You can combine those if you want, but that puts you in the position of claiming that the Bible says something it doesn't in order to justify that it doesn't say something that it does.

It does, the earliest prophecy of hope in Gen 3:15, where it predicts about the seed of a woman Mary, Jesus mother and Satan.

It was to them, but I still believe it was the fallen angel, the same belief to the "spirit of the glass."

The Bible says that it was Samuel, though.

Certainly, it was not actually Samuel that the medium had contacted. Samuel was dead and a person who is dead “goes back to his ground; in that day, his thoughts do perish.” (Psalm 146:4) Samuel was a prophet God, so he had rejected mediums. Also, while he was living, Samuel declined to speak with rebellious Saul.(1 Sam 15:26)

If you believe in Bible's inerrancy, assumptions would be there is no contradiction, the medium that saw the old man as Samuel, same as Eve saw and converse with the serpent unknowing it was Satan.

Assuming that it's inerrant is one thing; changing it so that it says something different is another.

In continual, before Samuel died he had refused to go back to the rebellious Saul. That old man is not Samuel just like Eve saw that serpent not knowing it was Satan.

1Sa 15:26 And Samuel said to Saul, “I will not return with you. For you have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected you from being king over Israel.”

[Capbook]

The old serpent, who is so called, because, of old, from the beginning, almost as soon as the world was, he appeared in the form of a serpent, or rather made use of it as an instrument and means, by which he seduced Eve.

That's a fine theological conclusion, but the Bible doesn't actually say those together. Paul says that a serpent beguiled Eve and the Revelator says that Satan is a serpent. You can combine those if you want, but that puts you in the position of claiming that the Bible says something it doesn't in order to justify that it doesn't say something that it does.

It does, the earliest prophecy of hope in Gen 3:15, where it predicts about the seed of a woman Mary, Jesus mother and Satan.

It was to them, but I still believe it was the fallen angel, the same belief to the "spirit of the glass."

The Bible says that it was Samuel, though.

Certainly, it was not actually Samuel that the medium had contacted. Samuel was dead and a person who is dead “goes back to his ground; in that day, his thoughts do perish.” (Psalm 146:4) Samuel was a prophet God, so he had rejected mediums. Also, while he was living, Samuel declined to speak with rebellious Saul.(1 Sam 15:26)

If you believe in Bible's inerrancy, assumptions would be there is no contradiction, the medium that saw the old man as Samuel, same as Eve saw and converse with the serpent unknowing it was Satan.

Assuming that it's inerrant is one thing; changing it so that it says something different is another.

In continual, before Samuel died he had refused to go back to the rebellious Saul. That old man is not Samuel just like Eve saw that serpent not knowing it was Satan.

1Sa 15:26 And Samuel said to Saul, “I will not return with you. For you have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected you from being king over Israel.”

[Capbook]

The old serpent, who is so called, because, of old, from the beginning, almost as soon as the world was, he appeared in the form of a serpent, or rather made use of it as an instrument and means, by which he seduced Eve.

That's a fine theological conclusion, but the Bible doesn't actually say those together. Paul says that a serpent beguiled Eve and the Revelator says that Satan is a serpent. You can combine those if you want, but that puts you in the position of claiming that the Bible says something it doesn't in order to justify that it doesn't say something that it does.

It does, the earliest prophecy of hope in Gen 3:15, where it predicts about the seed of a woman Mary, Jesus mother and Satan.

It was to them, but I still believe it was the fallen angel, the same belief to the "spirit of the glass."

The Bible says that it was Samuel, though.

Certainly, it was not actually Samuel that the medium had contacted. Samuel was dead and a person who is dead “goes back to his ground; in that day, his thoughts do perish.” (Psalm 146:4) Samuel was a prophet God, so he had rejected mediums. Also, while he was living, Samuel declined to speak with rebellious Saul.(1 Sam 15:26)

If you believe in Bible's inerrancy, assumptions would be there is no contradiction, the medium that saw the old man as Samuel, same as Eve saw and converse with the serpent unknowing it was Satan.

Assuming that it's inerrant is one thing; changing it so that it says something different is another.

In continual, before Samuel died he had refused to go back to the rebellious Saul. That old man is not Samuel just like Eve saw that serpent not knowing it was Satan.

1Sa 15:26 And Samuel said to Saul, “I will not return with you. For you have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected you from being king over Israel.”

[Difflugia]

It does, the earliest prophecy of hope in Gen 3:15, where it predicts about the seed of a woman Mary, Jesus mother and Satan.

Again, that's a fine theological extrapolation, but Genesis 3:15 only discusses the hatred between people and snakes. There's no mention of Mary, Jesus, or Satan in Genesis 3:15 or anywhere else in Genesis. In fact, every reference to "a satan" or "Satan" is post-exilic. Zechariah, First Chronicles, and Job all compete for being the earliest mention of a Satan character and all of those were written during the Persian period. That's unlikely to be a coincidence.

The Bible says that it was Samuel, though.

Certainly, it was not actually Samuel that the medium had contacted.

How you reconcile the contradiction between what the Bible says and your own theology is up to you, but the discussion is about what the Bible actually says.

Assuming that it's inerrant is one thing; changing it so that it says something different is another.

In continual, before Samuel died he had refused to go back to the rebellious Saul. That old man is not Samuel just like Eve saw that serpent not knowing it was Satan.

The Bible doesn't say or imply either one of these.

1Sa 15:26 And Samuel said to Saul, “I will not return with you. For you have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected you from being king over Israel.”

1 Samuel 28:15: And Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

[Capbook]

It does, the earliest prophecy of hope in Gen 3:15, where it predicts about the seed of a woman Mary, Jesus mother and Satan.
Again, that's a fine theological extrapolation, but Genesis 3:15 only discusses the hatred between people and snakes. There's no mention of Mary, Jesus, or Satan in Genesis 3:15 or anywhere else in Genesis. In fact, every reference to "a satan" or "Satan" is post-exilic. Zechariah, First Chronicles, and Job all compete for being the earliest mention of a Satan character and all of those were written during the Persian period. That's unlikely to be a coincidence.

Ezekiel 28:12-19, while initially addressing the King of Tyre, is interpreted as a symbolic account of Satan's fall, referencing his previous state as a blameless, anointed cherub was in Eden, the garden of God. The phrase "in Eden, the garden of God" (Ezekiel 28:13) is a key indicator that the passage is not simply about a human ruler. And the description of the subject as an "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28:14) further points to a heavenly being, not a king.
As fallen angels has the power to transform themselves to what they are not this point to Satan/old serpent as mentioned in Revelation.

The Bible says that it was Samuel, though.

Certainly, it was not actually Samuel that the medium had contacted.

How you reconcile the contradiction between what the Bible says and your own theology is up to you, but the discussion is about what the Bible actually says.

The same as in Genesis no mention of a fallen covering cherub (heavenly being) was at the garden of Eden.

Assuming that it's inerrant is one thing; changing it so that it says something different is another.

In continual, before Samuel died he had refused to go back to the rebellious Saul. That old man is not Samuel just like Eve saw that serpent not knowing it was Satan.

The Bible doesn't say or imply either one of these.

Same case with Eve whom saw and conversed with the serpent whom have no idea who really was it, where God put enmity between both seeds (future).

1Sa 15:26 And Samuel said to Saul, “I will not return with you. For you have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected you from being king over Israel.”

1 Samuel 28:15: And Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

1Sa 28:6 When Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, not by dreams or by Urim or by prophets.  The old man was not Samuel as verse 6, said it.

[Difflugia]

1 Samuel 28:15: And Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

1Sa 28:6 When Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, not by dreams or by Urim or by prophets.  The old man was not Samuel as verse 6, said it.

That's right. As of verse 6, Yahweh hadn't responded to Saul by dream, Urim, or prophet.

28:7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find a woman for me that has a familiar spirit so that I may go and inquire of her."

Emphasis mine. After verse 7 is when the prophet Samuel appeared with the message from Yahweh.

[Capbook]

1 Samuel 28:15: And Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

1Sa 28:6 When Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, not by dreams or by Urim or by prophets.  The old man was not Samuel as verse 6, said it.

That's right. As of verse 6, Yahweh hadn't responded to Saul by dream, Urim, or prophet.

28:7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find a woman for me that has a familiar spirit so that I may go and inquire of her."

Emphasis mine. After verse 7 is when the prophet Samuel appeared with the message from Yahweh.

The author of 1 Samuel had said plainly that Saul received no answer when he "inquired of the Lord" by dreams, which was an immediate revelation to himself, by Urim, which was an answer through the high priest clothed in the ephod, or by prophets, which was an answer conveyed through some seer speaking by the Word of the Lord.
It is said (1 Chron 10:14) that one reason why the Lord killed Saul, and gave his kingdom to David, was because he inquired not of the Lord but to a medium, a transgression committed by Saul.(1 Chron 10:13)

1 Chron 10:13
13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it;