Cults, and mind control

[placebofactor]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11, “They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe (the) lie:

What is the definition of a cult? A cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization. They are manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from their followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are examples. They deviate from the orthodox teachings of the historic Christian faith derived from the Bible and confirmed through ancient comprehensive, unifying doctrines.

Techniques of the cults are:
1. Repetitive instructions through streaming, books, magazines, and meetings. They hammer home the same basic information repeatedly. Example: Jesus is not God, and there is no Holy Spirit, no hell, no soul or spirit, etc.
2. All new members are told to break their relations with outside friends and to limit fellowship with non-members'.
3. They’re told not to read critical work outside of their publications, especially material from former members.
4. They threaten to shun if rules are broken
5. All ex-members are to be shunned.
6. They verbally attack and undermine the authority of outside institutions, such as religious, educational, medical, and governmental.
7. Their mindset is a coordinated superiority/ inferiority-guilt complex.

They will not stand for their authority to be challenged by any member. They set guidelines to prevent followers from circulating or possessing unauthorized literature. The following examples are from the Watchtower because of my familiarity with their literature.

In the May 1, 1984, Watchtower, under the heading “Questions from Readers” on page 31, the question was asked, “Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses decline to exchange their Bible study aids for the religious literature of people they meet?” Their answer,

“It would be foolhardy, as well as a waste of valuable time, for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept and expose themselves to false religious literature that is designed to deceive. Hence, it is out of wisdom and respect for God’s counsel that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not make a practice of exchanging valuable Bible study aids containing Scriptural truth for religious literature that disseminates error or apostate views.” I call that, religious totalitarianism.

In their March 15, 1986, issue of the Watchtower featured a photo of a woman tossing mail into the trash before the postman left. The caption, page 12, “Why is reading apostate publications similar to reading pornographic literature?”

In a November 1, 1987, Watchtower, page 19 they “claim that some Witnesses have exposed themselves to possible spiritual contamination by tuning in to religious radio and television broadcasts.”

Your thoughts:

[onewithhim]

Marke: Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong about many things and their acceptance of bad doctrine can be contributed to brainwashing by false teachers the deluded unwisely trust to guide them.

JW Jehovah's Witnesses are not perfect and like all christian groups have had to make adjustments over the years; that said any claim they have ever recommended, train or tolerate "brainwashing" techniques to gain or retain new members are completely FALSE.


It is best the ill informed refrain from spreading misinformation and disinformation about minorities as this can contribute to harmful or even illegal acts against them in the real world.

Marke: Nobody is perfect but there are right understandings of the Bible and wrong understandings. Anyone who refuses to believe in a burning hell does not rightly believe the Bible.

So you think God is a sadistic ogre and gets satisfied with watching someone burn in a fire forever with no relief? And how can a spirit be burned, anyway? It's all made up by masters of brainwashing.

[onewithhim]

Marke: Nobody is perfect but there are right understandings of the Bible and wrong understandings. Anyone who refuses to believe in a burning hell does not rightly believe the Bible.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS : I understand the above is your religious belief and I respect that. What I cannot respect is you accusation that Jehovah's Witnesses employ illegal and unethical techinques such as BRAINWASHING : that accusation that you postod us completely FALSE.

Do you understand what I have just written in this post?

Marke: Please accept my apology. I consider young Muslims who blow themselves up in suicide attacks for their false god to be brainwashed. Perhaps 'badly indoctrinated' might be a better description of kids taught by false teachers to disbelieve what Jesus said about hell fire.

So you are satisfied to teach your children about a sadistic God who burns people that go against Him? That's a good and proper thing to teach children? JWs tell their children the truth about an absolute eternal death for evil people, with no consciousness at all because they are truly dead. The children are taught that the bad people just go to sleep and don't wake up. The teaching of hell-fire is an abomination. It couldn't be further from the truth.

[onewithhim]

Perhaps 'badly indoctrinated' might be a better description of kids taught by false teachers to disbelieve what Jesus said about hell fire.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS : Jehovah’s Witnesses are not "indoctrinated" we are taught ; perhaps we are not taught the same religious beliefs as you were but I see no reason why you can claim to have be an informed and well educatzd believer and those that happen not to agree with you the victims of "indoctination".

Marke: I have talked with Jehovah's Witnesses who claim they do not believe this:

Mark 9

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

So Jesus meant to literally cut off your hand or your foot? Not so. And do you know that "hell" means the grave? The KJV puts "hell" in all the places that should read "Gehenna" or the grave. That translation is just wrong, as a thorough study of the Bible will tell you.

[onewithhim]

Marke: I have talked with Jehovah's Witnesses who claim they do not believe this:

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS: The Jehovah's Witnesses accept the ENTIRE Bible as the inspired word of God. There is not a single scripture in the established biblical canon that they do not believe to be true.


NOTE The official website of the Jehovah's Witnesses is www.jw.org and it is there that you can check if what you have heard are actually our OFFICIAL beliefs

Marke: Do you believe sinners will be condemned to the fire that is not quenched where the worm dies not as Jesus said?

You believe that worms can live forever? I think Jesus was talking about something deeper.

[placebofactor]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11, “They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe (the) lie:

What is the definition of a cult? A cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization. They are manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from their followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are examples. They deviate from the orthodox teachings of the historic Christian faith derived from the Bible and confirmed through ancient comprehensive, unifying doctrines.

Techniques of the cults are:
1. Repetitive instructions through streaming, books, magazines, and meetings. They hammer home the same basic information repeatedly. Example: Jesus is not God, and there is no Holy Spirit, no hell, no soul or spirit, etc.
2. All new members are told to break their relations with outside friends and to limit fellowship with non-members'.
3. They’re told not to read critical work outside of their publications, especially material from former members.
4. They threaten to shun if rules are broken
5. All ex-members are to be shunned.
6. They verbally attack and undermine the authority of outside institutions, such as religious, educational, medical, and governmental.
7. Their mindset is a coordinated superiority/ inferiority-guilt complex.

They will not stand for their authority to be challenged by any member. They set guidelines to prevent followers from circulating or possessing unauthorized literature. The following examples are from the Watchtower because of my familiarity with their literature.

In the May 1, 1984, Watchtower, under the heading “Questions from Readers” on page 31, the question was asked, “Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses decline to exchange their Bible study aids for the religious literature of people they meet?” Their answer,

“It would be foolhardy, as well as a waste of valuable time, for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept and expose themselves to false religious literature that is designed to deceive. Hence, it is out of wisdom and respect for God’s counsel that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not make a practice of exchanging valuable Bible study aids containing Scriptural truth for religious literature that disseminates error or apostate views.” I call that, religious totalitarianism.

In their March 15, 1986, issue of the Watchtower featured a photo of a woman tossing mail into the trash before the postman left. The caption, page 12, “Why is reading apostate publications similar to reading pornographic literature?”

In a November 1, 1987, Watchtower, page 19 they “claim that some Witnesses have exposed themselves to possible spiritual contamination by tuning in to religious radio and television broadcasts.”

Your thoughts:

That is mostly true, yet your list of what JWs might do is warped. It is mean and misleading. I agree that reading other religions' literature is like viewing pornography, and I say, "I just don't care to read that stuff, knowing what it's going to say. I know the truth already, so why waste time pretending to go over what the tracts and booklets say?" So I politely demure to take the material being offered to me. And why would we want to look at the televangelists in all their money-grubbing spurious glory? They make me ill. Your words "religious totalitarianism" do not set forth the truth. We get the warning, yet it is on each one of us to make up our minds as to what other religions' literature has to offer us. It turns out to be nothing. Most of us have examined what other religions teach before we became Witnesses. We can honestly say that we know what their literature is going to say. Obviously, you can't say the same about our literature. You don't really know what we believe and why, as your rhetoric and long lists of what we supposedly do show that you do not really know, even though you say you've had long discussions with your relatives.

I quoted from your own Watchtower. Are you denying the Watchtower quotes? If you are, look them up for yourself.

[JehovahsWitness]

I quoted from your own Watchtower. Are you denying the Watchtower quotes? If you are, look them up for yourself.

The Watchtowers are accurate, the OPs implication that Jehovah's Witnesses employ BRAINWASHING/MIND CONTROL techniques are entirely FALSE and baseless.

• Inaccuracies in OP have been addressed HERE --> http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 8#p1165458

• Statements in the OP which, while accurate , demand clarification HERE --> http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 0#p1165460

[marke]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11, “They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe (the) lie:

What is the definition of a cult? A cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization. They are manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from their followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are examples. They deviate from the orthodox teachings of the historic Christian faith derived from the Bible and confirmed through ancient comprehensive, unifying doctrines.

Techniques of the cults are:
1. Repetitive instructions through streaming, books, magazines, and meetings. They hammer home the same basic information repeatedly. Example: Jesus is not God, and there is no Holy Spirit, no hell, no soul or spirit, etc.
2. All new members are told to break their relations with outside friends and to limit fellowship with non-members'.
3. They’re told not to read critical work outside of their publications, especially material from former members.
4. They threaten to shun if rules are broken
5. All ex-members are to be shunned.
6. They verbally attack and undermine the authority of outside institutions, such as religious, educational, medical, and governmental.
7. Their mindset is a coordinated superiority/ inferiority-guilt complex.

They will not stand for their authority to be challenged by any member. They set guidelines to prevent followers from circulating or possessing unauthorized literature. The following examples are from the Watchtower because of my familiarity with their literature.

In the May 1, 1984, Watchtower, under the heading “Questions from Readers” on page 31, the question was asked, “Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses decline to exchange their Bible study aids for the religious literature of people they meet?” Their answer,

“It would be foolhardy, as well as a waste of valuable time, for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept and expose themselves to false religious literature that is designed to deceive. Hence, it is out of wisdom and respect for God’s counsel that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not make a practice of exchanging valuable Bible study aids containing Scriptural truth for religious literature that disseminates error or apostate views.” I call that, religious totalitarianism.

In their March 15, 1986, issue of the Watchtower featured a photo of a woman tossing mail into the trash before the postman left. The caption, page 12, “Why is reading apostate publications similar to reading pornographic literature?”

In a November 1, 1987, Watchtower, page 19 they “claim that some Witnesses have exposed themselves to possible spiritual contamination by tuning in to religious radio and television broadcasts.”

Your thoughts:

Marke: Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong about many things and their acceptance of bad doctrine can be contributed to brainwashing by false teachers the deluded unwisely trust to guide them.

How is our doctrine bad? Chapter and verse please, and leave it open for discussion.

And we are the most UN-brainwashed of the religions.

If you believe and teach what Jesus said about hell in Mark 9 then I don't think your doctrine on that subject is bad.

[marke]

Marke: Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong about many things and their acceptance of bad doctrine can be contributed to brainwashing by false teachers the deluded unwisely trust to guide them.

JW Jehovah's Witnesses are not perfect and like all christian groups have had to make adjustments over the years; that said any claim they have ever recommended, train or tolerate "brainwashing" techniques to gain or retain new members are completely FALSE.


It is best the ill informed refrain from spreading misinformation and disinformation about minorities as this can contribute to harmful or even illegal acts against them in the real world.

Marke: Nobody is perfect but there are right understandings of the Bible and wrong understandings. Anyone who refuses to believe in a burning hell does not rightly believe the Bible.

So you think God is a sadistic ogre and gets satisfied with watching someone burn in a fire forever with no relief? And how can a spirit be burned, anyway? It's all made up by masters of brainwashing.

God has made it clear that He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and He has made it clear that He will show no mercy to hardened rebels who spit in His eye when He tries to save them by the conviction of the Holy Ghost.

[marke]

Marke: Nobody is perfect but there are right understandings of the Bible and wrong understandings. Anyone who refuses to believe in a burning hell does not rightly believe the Bible.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS : I understand the above is your religious belief and I respect that. What I cannot respect is you accusation that Jehovah's Witnesses employ illegal and unethical techinques such as BRAINWASHING : that accusation that you postod us completely FALSE.

Do you understand what I have just written in this post?

Marke: Please accept my apology. I consider young Muslims who blow themselves up in suicide attacks for their false god to be brainwashed. Perhaps 'badly indoctrinated' might be a better description of kids taught by false teachers to disbelieve what Jesus said about hell fire.

So you are satisfied to teach your children about a sadistic God who burns people that go against Him? That's a good and proper thing to teach children? JWs tell their children the truth about an absolute eternal death for evil people, with no consciousness at all because they are truly dead. The children are taught that the bad people just go to sleep and don't wake up. The teaching of hell-fire is an abomination. It couldn't be further from the truth.

God is not soft on crimes committed by hardened followers of the devil who blaspheme God when under conviction of the Holy Ghost.

[marke]

Perhaps 'badly indoctrinated' might be a better description of kids taught by false teachers to disbelieve what Jesus said about hell fire.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS : Jehovah’s Witnesses are not "indoctrinated" we are taught ; perhaps we are not taught the same religious beliefs as you were but I see no reason why you can claim to have be an informed and well educatzd believer and those that happen not to agree with you the victims of "indoctination".

Marke: I have talked with Jehovah's Witnesses who claim they do not believe this:

Mark 9

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

So Jesus meant to literally cut off your hand or your foot? Not so. And do you know that "hell" means the grave? The KJV puts "hell" in all the places that should read "Gehenna" or the grave. That translation is just wrong, as a thorough study of the Bible will tell you.

Mutilating the simple interpretation of clear scriptures does not turn Biblical truth into a lie.