Israel at War with Hamas October 7, 2023

[Diogenes]

There is no question this was a horrific attack by Hamas on Israel that also endangers Palestinians.
To what extent are attacks like this inevitable, considering the history of Israel?

Isn't this just another example of how religious conflict breeds violence?
or
Is it inevitable that strongly held beliefs will always ignite the passions of some?

Perhaps the difference with religions that claim authority from God is that they inspire absolute beliefs, an absolute conviction they are 'right' and therefore anything is justifiable... including following God's orders to kill your own son.

Palestinian land stolen in 1948, more in 1967, then more every day in the West Bank makes acts of terrorism inevitable. Then Netanyahu put a right wing criminal in charge of the 'Ministry of Justice,' and... BIG SURPRISE! ... another war.
"If I go the to write indictment number one, it would go to Israel's Justice Minister YARIV LEVIN. He is the man who drove this insane, corrupt, dishonest effort to basically take over the power of the Supreme Court. With Netanyahu's help, he fractured Israel. He fractured Israeli society. He fractured the Israeli ministry, the military. He fractured the Israeli air force...."
__ Tom Friedman

https://www.rawstory.com/tom-friedman-i ... A-TIAtHv6Y

[Diogenes]

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #260]
You make some valid points. MY issue is that the creation of Israel in 1947/48 was a horrible, cowardly mistake fueled by the curious combination of Zionists and anti-Semites. Any rational person should have foreseen the Palestinians would NEVER agree to the mandate or to the partitioning of their land. But Europe and the U.S., et al. felt guilty about the holocaust AND (paradoxically) there were anti-Semites who wanted the Jews out of Europe.

The 1300 vs 3000 years is interesting, but ultimately the latter, the idea of the Jews' ancient homeland, is not a valid point. According to the Jewish Bible, the Hebrews stole the land in the first place via genocide. But all land has been taken that way since Day Zero. Tribes simply do what tribes do. There is no "Grant from God."
A 1300 year old abandonment of property might as well be 5000 or more. You leave 'your' land for that long, you have ZERO claim to it.

In the end tho' I am not taking sides in 2024. What's done is done. Israel exists. A two-state solution appears the only one. My main point is that Netanyahu is not morally superior to the worst of the Hamas terrorists. He must disavow the land stealing in the West Bank and the apartheid that is Israel today.

[AgnosticBoy]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #261]

Good points. Another standard that I'd add is that we shouldn't provide any support to countries that are not democracies. For instance, I wouldn't care to support Nazi Germany in any way just so they can continue their oppression of people based on race or ethnicity, etc.. Much of the Middle East, including Palestine, are not democracies and they probably don't care to be. Any deal to give any land to Jews or Arabs should come with assurances that they will function as democracies.

[Purple Knight]

According to the Jewish Bible, the Hebrews stole the land in the first place via genocide. But all land has been taken that way since Day Zero. Tribes simply do what tribes do. There is no "Grant from God."
A 1300 year old abandonment of property might as well be 5000 or more. You leave 'your' land for that long, you have ZERO claim to it.

What really invalidates a claim of endemic homeland is the refusal to recognise another's. Every People that exists now, exists now, and they came about somewhere. The idea that one People should have a special place that is theirs first, means every People should.

Nobody needs it more. Everybody can be a victim.

[marke]

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #260]
You make some valid points. MY issue is that the creation of Israel in 1947/48 was a horrible, cowardly mistake fueled by the curious combination of Zionists and anti-Semites. Any rational person should have foreseen the Palestinians would NEVER agree to the mandate or to the partitioning of their land. But Europe and the U.S., et al. felt guilty about the holocaust AND (paradoxically) there were anti-Semites who wanted the Jews out of Europe.

The 1300 vs 3000 years is interesting, but ultimately the latter, the idea of the Jews' ancient homeland, is not a valid point. According to the Jewish Bible, the Hebrews stole the land in the first place via genocide. But all land has been taken that way since Day Zero. Tribes simply do what tribes do. There is no "Grant from God."
A 1300 year old abandonment of property might as well be 5000 or more. You leave 'your' land for that long, you have ZERO claim to it.

In the end tho' I am not taking sides in 2024. What's done is done. Israel exists. A two-state solution appears the only one. My main point is that Netanyahu is not morally superior to the worst of the Hamas terrorists. He must disavow the land stealing in the West Bank and the apartheid that is Israel today.

Arabs and Jews both occupied the British territory in 1948 so it is wrong to describe the land of Judah as "Palestinian land." No Palestinian nation in history ever owned the land in dispute that has been repeatedly owned by Jews.