What do JWs know?

[2ndpillar2]

I just had two JWs come to my house. They said that they do not believe in the Trinity, yet they were quoting from a bible whose canon was produced by Athanasius in 367 A.D., the same guy who was the main proponent of the Trinity doctrine at Constantine's Council of Nicaea. They apparently did not know that Athanasius produced the canon they used, and that he proposed doctrine which is opposite of what they believe. Is this a one off, or is lack of historical context part of the JWs normal routine? They gave their quote of the day, Rev 21:4, without context, and didn't know that Rev 22:15 applied to the same Jerusalem, and that those "who practice lying" would not "enter". As soon as I told them, they turned and walked quickly away. The second time in around so many weeks, that JWs came, and quickly walked away when confronted with their inconsistencies.

[marke]

Jesus is clearly revealed in the Bible as God incarnate.

But not as Almighty God, Jehovah (YHWH) since no human can see the Most High God and live. Jesus is the son of God and whether as a physical human or a glorified spirit, Jesus remains inferior in power and rank to his Father.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

Jesus is the Almighty God of Revelation 1:18.

[onewithhim]

I just had two JWs come to my house. They said that they do not believe in the Trinity, yet they were quoting from a bible whose canon was produced by Athanasius in 367 A.D...

It is interesting that the Bible doesn't support the idea of Trinity, it doesn't even have the word Trinity in it. So, if Athanasius supported the idea of Trinity, when he collected the scriptures, that he didn't make, it is weird why didn't he take anything that would support the idea.

Jesus is clearly revealed in the Bible as God incarnate.

No he is not. He is clearly revealed as the SON OF God.

John 10:36
John 20:17
John 5:19
John 12:49, 50
I Corinthians 11:3
I Corinthians 15:24, 28

These are just a handful of scriptures to show that Jesus is the SON of God. There are hundreds more. Will you look these up and then explain to me what they mean to you?

[onewithhim]

Jesus is clearly revealed in the Bible as God incarnate.

But not as Almighty God, Jehovah (YHWH) since no human can see the Most High God and live. Jesus is the son of God and whether as a physical human or a glorified spirit, Jesus remains inferior in power and rank to his Father.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

God has commanded all creatures in heaven and earth to bow down and worship Jesus as God.
Hebrews 1:6
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

He is "worshipped" as a high-ranking, powerful , important individual, but Hebrews 1:6 (nor anywhere else) is there a command that the angels and humans are to worship him as God.

[onewithhim]

Jesus is clearly revealed in the Bible as God incarnate.

But not as Almighty God, Jehovah (YHWH) since no human can see the Most High God and live. Jesus is the son of God and whether as a physical human or a glorified spirit, Jesus remains inferior in power and rank to his Father.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

Jesus is the Almighty God of Revelation 1:18.

No, he is called "the First and the Last" in verse 17. That is not the same in the original Greek language as Alpha and Omega. Look at an Interlinear Bible and you can see the difference. The verse 18 says nothing about Alpha and Omega, and in fact it mentions that Jesus "became dead." God cannot die. So he is not the Almighty Alpha and Omega.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus is clearly revealed in the Bible as God incarnate.

But not as Almighty God, Jehovah (YHWH) since no human can see the Most High God and live. Jesus is the son of God and whether as a physical human or a glorified spirit, Jesus remains inferior in power and rank to his Father.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

God has commanded all creatures in heaven and earth to bow down and worship Jesus as God.
Hebrews 1:6
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

And Jesus bows (submits) to the Father. ",..then the Son himself will also be subjected to him [Almighty God ]" - 1 CORINTHIANS 15:28

[marke]

I just had two JWs come to my house. They said that they do not believe in the Trinity, yet they were quoting from a bible whose canon was produced by Athanasius in 367 A.D...

It is interesting that the Bible doesn't support the idea of Trinity, it doesn't even have the word Trinity in it. So, if Athanasius supported the idea of Trinity, when he collected the scriptures, that he didn't make, it is weird why didn't he take anything that would support the idea.

Jesus is clearly revealed in the Bible as God incarnate.

No he is not. He is clearly revealed as the SON OF God.

John 10:36
John 20:17
John 5:19
John 12:49, 50
I Corinthians 11:3
I Corinthians 15:24, 28

These are just a handful of scriptures to show that Jesus is the SON of God. There are hundreds more. Will you look these up and then explain to me what they mean to you?

Jesus is both God and the Son of God, which is a fact that humans cannot fully understand because humans are not God and cannot see God in the flesh to understand that God is not like humans.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus is both God and the Son of God,

So why is he never recorded as saying the words " I am both God and the Son of God" ?

[onewithhim]

I just had two JWs come to my house. They said that they do not believe in the Trinity, yet they were quoting from a bible whose canon was produced by Athanasius in 367 A.D...

It is interesting that the Bible doesn't support the idea of Trinity, it doesn't even have the word Trinity in it. So, if Athanasius supported the idea of Trinity, when he collected the scriptures, that he didn't make, it is weird why didn't he take anything that would support the idea.

Jesus is clearly revealed in the Bible as God incarnate.

No he is not. He is clearly revealed as the SON OF God.

John 10:36
John 20:17
John 5:19
John 12:49, 50
I Corinthians 11:3
I Corinthians 15:24, 28

These are just a handful of scriptures to show that Jesus is the SON of God. There are hundreds more. Will you look these up and then explain to me what they mean to you?

Jesus is both God and the Son of God, which is a fact that humans cannot fully understand because humans are not God and cannot see God in the flesh to understand that God is not like humans.

I asked you to read the verses I cited and tell me what each means to you. You did not answer my question. How can Jesus be God if he learned from the Father (God) and spoke what God told him to say?

[Capbook]

I believe there are no better substitute than blood transfusion. See below;

Blood substitutes
These include volume expanders, like saline, and oxygen therapeutics, like hemoglobin-based oxygen carriers (HBOCs). HBOCs are compatible with all blood types and don't require refrigeration, but they can cause severe immune reactions. Hemopure is a bovine hemoglobin-based oxygen-carrying solution that can be used as a bridge while the body regenerates blood. However, it can be risky and may cause complications like heart attack and stroke.
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+ther ... s-wiz-serp

There are other substitutes to take. Also, what are the risks of having a blood transfusion? There are many. Check that out. And, too, check out "bloodless medicine" or "bloodless surgery" and you can see what many doctors are saying.

Have you noticed that the Witnesses never talk about the number of lives that were saved by blood transfusions, especially in war-zone situations and in automobile accidents?

Lives would have been saved even if the patients took a substitute for blood. Even in war-zone situations and automobile accidents. Have you checked out "bloodless medicine"?

It might be with modern technology today, but how about where it was not yet available?
Many might have died before by refusing such life saving option.

No, a simple saline solution could have saved them. The main problem with injuries that supposedly need transfusions is that the veins might collapse. That is why transfusions are administered. Yet, a saline solution will prevent the veins from collapsing. There is no need for someone's blood to be injected into someone. It has been vigorously deemed necessary by the blood banks who are getting top dollar for their blood, and doctors go along with this pressure from the blood banks to give people this expensive fluid.

And why there are still records of JWs that died annually due to refusal of blood transfusion. (Link below)

It is estimated that about 1000 Jehovah’s Witnesses die annually due to refusal of blood transfusion (6). In Jehovah’s Witness patients, the question of the critical Hb level for transfusion to decrease mortality can be transformed to the critical Hb level to start medical management or to administer blood substitutes.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/P ... ubstitutes.

I don't know where you got your figures, but I doubt that so many JWs die when not accepting a blood transfusion. The bloodless medicine that hospitals supply is totally adequate to save a life. Doctors will say this. Have you looked up "bloodless medicine" on the web? It refers you to many hospitals that offer this, and the doctors agree that blood isn't necessary. I believe that if a JW dies after refusing blood he would've died even if he had allowed the transfusion. Sometimes a person is just too far gone for anything to help. Otherwise, a substitute is sufficient.

I had a serious operation a few years ago and I made it clear that I didn't want blood. The operation took 5 hours and no blood was administered. I thanked the surgeon afterwards for not using blood and he said, "I do it all the time." Doctors know that blood isn't necessary. They want to give blood for the money, due to the blood banks' pressure.

I got the figures of JWs that died due to refusal of blood transfusion from the link I've provided above.
You just click it.

I read most of it. It is not very clear as to what the risks of blood transfusions are. And they offer very small percentages of what people experience if they don't take blood. Where is the information about how patients fare when they take a substitute? I wish I could provide a link but I don't know how to do that. I ask you to kindly look up "bloodless medicine" on the web and read what many doctors are saying. I posted that I myself endured a 5-hour operation with no blood and the doctor said that he does it all the time. Before the operation no one said anything about the idea that I might die if I didn't take blood. They know it isn't necessary. If some push it, they are doing so from pressure from the blood banks.

You've read most of it? Did they have a numerical figure of those who suffered death due refusal to blood transfusion?
Yes, I have looked into bloodless medicine websites which comes late compare to the existing of your church.
Before that meds discovery, I believe your church members suffered proven by that link.

[marke]

Jesus is both God and the Son of God,

So why is he never recorded as saying the words " I am both God and the Son of God" ?

I suspect He did not want to say that.