Persecution

[Realworldjack]

Are Christians being persecuted in the United States?

If so, please explain how.

[Purple Knight]

Yes, Christians are being persecuted in the United States.

Persecution doesn't have to happen by the government. It doesn't have to involve physical force.

Christians are being persecuted because they're the one religious group it's okay to make fun of. It's okay to badmouth them, call them names, insult their religion. Here's an example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Orel
Moral Orel takes place in the fictional capital city of Moralton in the fictional Bible Belt state of Statesota. According to the globe shown in the opening credits, Moralton is in the exact center of the United States, with a church at the town's exact center. The protagonist is 12-year-old Orel Puppington, a student at Alfred G. Diorama Elementary School, who tries to live by the fundamentalist Protestant Christian moral code as articulated in church or by his abusive father, Clay Puppington. Orel naïvely follows this code to disastrous extremes.

This cartoon makes fun of Christianity, and not just fundamentalism as it says. It spotlights core Christian values such as self-denial and tears them to pieces. And it's funny. And it's good. Because some of these values can cause real problems and in a pluralistic society it's very important to highlight which values are working and which ones are not. The problem is that somehow, all other values became sacred and now it's, "How dare you make fun of people's precious, dearly-held beliefs? That's not okay."

You would not see a cartoon have the same success and acclaim if it made fun of any other religious group. South Park tried. And the speech got bleeped even though it had nothing to do with Muslims because it was in an episode that had those themes and people were clearly worried that it would be seen to be about Muslims.



This is disgusting. We live in a world where we can beat Christians over the head for the Crusades but we have to look the other way on modern-day Crusaders simply because their religion is sacred, to be respected, even by people who don't agree with it, but Christianity is not.

Now you might say, "But, isn't it better if something you don't think is true is able to be ridiculed? Maybe other stuff will be permissible to ridicule later."

No.

Because you can't have a pluralistic society if you can't treat people equally, and people are not being treated equally. If everyone else has to have their beliefs respected even if their beliefs are foolish, so too should Christians.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #2]

Well, this is not quite the persecution I was referring to. Rather, I was talking about Christians being able to live, work, participate in the political process, worship freely, and accepted as part of society. In other words, there is not a concerted effort to rid our society of Christians, say like there was. and maybe even still is, a concerted effort to eliminate the Jewish people.

As far as the things you are referring too, do you think that we as Christians may have brought this upon ourselves? I mean, it is a fact that we have a history of attempting to force our morality upon others. It is a fact the Church has been involved in what we call ourselves, "culture wars". Do you think that if we as Christians would stop attempting to take over politically, we would be more accepted? There is a tremendous difference between holding those who belong to the Church accountable to a code of conduct, as opposed to attempting to hold those outside the Church to the same code, who are not proclaiming to be Christians.

[Purple Knight]

As far as the things you are referring too, do you think that we as Christians may have brought this upon ourselves? I mean, it is a fact that we have a history of attempting to force our morality upon others.

But everybody does that, even atheists. They proselytize. A lot. Lately atheists are the most moralistic halo-wearers I've come across. Someone needs to remind them that they do not believe in the kind of divine moral authority they think they have.

I'm the only atheist who admits that if I say, "Murder is wrong, no reason, it just is, end of story," then I'm basically conceding God, because I'm saying something exists that just gets to say, something that just has that authority, something that can just override others and be right while they're wrong, and the only name for that is God. (Also that's why I think there's not one.)

Do you think that if we as Christians would stop attempting to take over politically, we would be more accepted?

Actually I think the reason people trample your rights is that they know they can get away with it, because you'll turn the other cheek. You don't see people badmouthing Islam because, well, they don't think the Muslims will turn the other cheek.

I'll probably get killed by a Muslim someday because I actually believe in treating people equally which means I ought to treat a Muslim the same way I treat a Christian: As someone who believes in an entity who probably doesn't exist, and even if he does exist, does not have the moral authority people think he has.

Well, this is not quite the persecution I was referring to.

It's a complicated issue. People say, "It's only censorship if the government does it," but it doesn't matter to the people who are losing the right to say or even believe certain things because they'll be cut off from society. You can say the same of persecution. But just the same, it doesn't matter who's doing it. It matters what real effects it has on the people being persecuted. And yes, Christians can still worship as they please. But if they can be badmouthed and other religions can't, well, let's just say I have very little faith in humanity and I don't put it past them to start killing Christians when every other door is shut and every other group protected.

[marke]

Are Christians being persecuted in the United States?

If so, please explain how.

Yes. Democrats jailed an innocent grandma for praying inside the US Capitol building on Jan 6.