The Definition of God

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Delphi
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The Definition of God

Post #1

Post by Delphi »

God is often defined as having various extraordinary characteristics. Infinitely loving, all powerful, omniscient, the creator of the Universe, etc.

How can we know that this is indeed true? How can we verify such grandiose assertions? No greater claims could possibly be made!

Normally, we make definitions based on verifiable evidence and observation. For example, we define a giraffe as being a large four-legged grazing mammal with a long neck, hooves, a mouth, a tongue, teeth, and two eyes. We can rationally define a giraffe this way based on verifiable observation. We define a giraffe by going out and finding a giraffe, then defining it based on its attributes.

Yet somehow, God is defined in the opposite manner. We do not go out and find god and define it based on its attributes. Instead, we apply god's characteristics to him without ever observing god. Definitions seem to fabricated out of imagination. I find this extremely dubious.

It seems to me that we are applying these definitions to the concept of a god. We cannot verify nor falsify these attributes.

What is going on here?

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Re: The Definition of God

Post #291

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 1:44 pm
Difflugia wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 3:53 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 1:13 pm
Capbook wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 11:19 amDo the Hebrew text of Psa 45:6, say what you are saying also? There is no word "is" there.
The Hebrew text, as seen in the Jewish Bible Society's version, is: "Your divine throne is everlasting." This is how Hebrew writers interpreted the verse. Look it up in a Jewish Bible.
That's one English translator's reading of the Hebrew text. The four Hebrew words mean "throne (you) | God | always | and always." The words for always are different, but synonyms; "eternal and forever" or some such.

The JPS translations (1917 and 1985) are both modern translations. To claim that they somehow represent Judaism of antiquity is just talking through your hat. Furthermore, "your divine throne" isn't remotely the same as "your throne is God" and the Septuagint reading cannot be back-translated as "your divine throne."
That is not true. I have accurately presented the facts of this in a previous post which apparently you have ignored.
Do the the Jews embraced the NT?
What they consider Scriptures is only the OT. Not the Bible.
That is clear that the Jewish Bible Society is a translation.
Would you consider then the original Hebrew text is wrong because of your preferred translation of Psa 45:6?

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Re: The Definition of God

Post #292

Post by Difflugia »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 1:44 pmThat is not true. I have accurately presented the facts of this in a previous post which apparently you have ignored.
I've looked through your posts and while I see a lot of unsupported claims, I don't see any accurately presented facts that would cast doubt on anything I've written. In fact, I provided the support for what I've written in the bits of the post that you chose not to quote, or, as some might say, have ignored.

Perhaps I simply missed it. Would you mind linking to the post with those accurately presented facts?
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: The Definition of God

Post #293

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:11 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 1:44 pm
Difflugia wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 3:53 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 1:13 pm
Capbook wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 11:19 amDo the Hebrew text of Psa 45:6, say what you are saying also? There is no word "is" there.
The Hebrew text, as seen in the Jewish Bible Society's version, is: "Your divine throne is everlasting." This is how Hebrew writers interpreted the verse. Look it up in a Jewish Bible.
That's one English translator's reading of the Hebrew text. The four Hebrew words mean "throne (you) | God | always | and always." The words for always are different, but synonyms; "eternal and forever" or some such.

The JPS translations (1917 and 1985) are both modern translations. To claim that they somehow represent Judaism of antiquity is just talking through your hat. Furthermore, "your divine throne" isn't remotely the same as "your throne is God" and the Septuagint reading cannot be back-translated as "your divine throne."
That is not true. I have accurately presented the facts of this in a previous post which apparently you have ignored.
Do the the Jews embraced the NT?
What they consider Scriptures is only the OT. Not the Bible.
That is clear that the Jewish Bible Society is a translation.
Would you consider then the original Hebrew text is wrong because of your preferred translation of Psa 45:6?
The original text in the O.T. wrought by Jews is correct. The writer of Hebrews quoted it from the Hebrew Scriptures (what we call the O.T.) with the same meaning as the Jews' translation. "Your divine throne is forever..." All the power came from God to make Jesus the King of His government. The power can be said to be the "throne." "God is your throne forever" would be the meaning.

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Re: The Definition of God

Post #294

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:01 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:11 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 1:44 pm
Difflugia wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 3:53 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 1:13 pm
Capbook wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 11:19 amDo the Hebrew text of Psa 45:6, say what you are saying also? There is no word "is" there.
The Hebrew text, as seen in the Jewish Bible Society's version, is: "Your divine throne is everlasting." This is how Hebrew writers interpreted the verse. Look it up in a Jewish Bible.
That's one English translator's reading of the Hebrew text. The four Hebrew words mean "throne (you) | God | always | and always." The words for always are different, but synonyms; "eternal and forever" or some such.

The JPS translations (1917 and 1985) are both modern translations. To claim that they somehow represent Judaism of antiquity is just talking through your hat. Furthermore, "your divine throne" isn't remotely the same as "your throne is God" and the Septuagint reading cannot be back-translated as "your divine throne."
That is not true. I have accurately presented the facts of this in a previous post which apparently you have ignored.
Do the the Jews embraced the NT?
What they consider Scriptures is only the OT. Not the Bible.
That is clear that the Jewish Bible Society is a translation.
Would you consider then the original Hebrew text is wrong because of your preferred translation of Psa 45:6?
The original text in the O.T. wrought by Jews is correct. The writer of Hebrews quoted it from the Hebrew Scriptures (what we call the O.T.) with the same meaning as the Jews' translation. "Your divine throne is forever..." All the power came from God to make Jesus the King of His government. The power can be said to be the "throne." "God is your throne forever" would be the meaning.
These are the facts I now presented to you, the original Hebrew text Psa 45:6 and Greek text of Heb 1:8 and it does not say what you've said.

Psa 45:6 Thy throne, H3678  O God, H430  is for ever H5769  and ever: H5703  the sceptre H7626  of thy kingdom H4438  is a right H4334  sceptre. H7626
Psa 45:7 כסאך H3678  אלהים H430  עולם H5769  ועד H5703  שׁבט H7626  מישׁר H4334  שׁבט H7626  מלכותך׃ H4438 

Heb 1:8 But G1161  unto G4314  the G3588  Son G5207  he saith, Thy G4675  throne, G2362  O God, G2316  is for ever and ever: G1519 G165 G165  a sceptre G4464  of righteousness G2118  is the G3588  sceptre G4464  of thy G4675  kingdom. G932
Heb 1:8 προς G4314 PREP  δε G1161 CONJ  τον G3588 T-ASM  υιον G5207 N-ASM  ο G3588 T-NSM  θρονος G2362 N-NSM  σου G4771 P-2GS  ο G3588 T-NSM  θεος G2316 N-NSM  εις G1519 PREP  τον G3588 T-ASM  αιωνα G165 N-ASM  του G3588 T-GSM  αιωνος G165 N-GSM  ραβδος G4464 N-NSF  ευθυτητος G2118 N-GSF  η G3588 T-NSF  ραβδος G4464 N-NSF  της G3588 T-GSF  βασιλειας G932 N-GSF  σου G4771 P-2GS

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Re: The Definition of God

Post #295

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 1:26 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:01 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:11 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 1:44 pm
Difflugia wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 3:53 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 1:13 pm
Capbook wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 11:19 amDo the Hebrew text of Psa 45:6, say what you are saying also? There is no word "is" there.
The Hebrew text, as seen in the Jewish Bible Society's version, is: "Your divine throne is everlasting." This is how Hebrew writers interpreted the verse. Look it up in a Jewish Bible.
That's one English translator's reading of the Hebrew text. The four Hebrew words mean "throne (you) | God | always | and always." The words for always are different, but synonyms; "eternal and forever" or some such.

The JPS translations (1917 and 1985) are both modern translations. To claim that they somehow represent Judaism of antiquity is just talking through your hat. Furthermore, "your divine throne" isn't remotely the same as "your throne is God" and the Septuagint reading cannot be back-translated as "your divine throne."
That is not true. I have accurately presented the facts of this in a previous post which apparently you have ignored.
Do the the Jews embraced the NT?
What they consider Scriptures is only the OT. Not the Bible.
That is clear that the Jewish Bible Society is a translation.
Would you consider then the original Hebrew text is wrong because of your preferred translation of Psa 45:6?
The original text in the O.T. wrought by Jews is correct. The writer of Hebrews quoted it from the Hebrew Scriptures (what we call the O.T.) with the same meaning as the Jews' translation. "Your divine throne is forever..." All the power came from God to make Jesus the King of His government. The power can be said to be the "throne." "God is your throne forever" would be the meaning.
These are the facts I now presented to you, the original Hebrew text Psa 45:6 and Greek text of Heb 1:8 and it does not say what you've said.

Psa 45:6 Thy throne, H3678  O God, H430  is for ever H5769  and ever: H5703  the sceptre H7626  of thy kingdom H4438  is a right H4334  sceptre. H7626
Psa 45:7 כסאך H3678  אלהים H430  עולם H5769  ועד H5703  שׁבט H7626  מישׁר H4334  שׁבט H7626  מלכותך׃ H4438 

Heb 1:8 But G1161  unto G4314  the G3588  Son G5207  he saith, Thy G4675  throne, G2362  O God, G2316  is for ever and ever: G1519 G165 G165  a sceptre G4464  of righteousness G2118  is the G3588  sceptre G4464  of thy G4675  kingdom. G932
Heb 1:8 προς G4314 PREP  δε G1161 CONJ  τον G3588 T-ASM  υιον G5207 N-ASM  ο G3588 T-NSM  θρονος G2362 N-NSM  σου G4771 P-2GS  ο G3588 T-NSM  θεος G2316 N-NSM  εις G1519 PREP  τον G3588 T-ASM  αιωνα G165 N-ASM  του G3588 T-GSM  αιωνος G165 N-GSM  ραβδος G4464 N-NSF  ευθυτητος G2118 N-GSF  η G3588 T-NSF  ραβδος G4464 N-NSF  της G3588 T-GSF  βασιλειας G932 N-GSF  σου G4771 P-2GS
You prefer to ignore all that I have previously posted about this. I don't think we'll get anywhere in the discussion by going around and around, you asking the same questions over and over, which I answered as clearly as I could. Have you actually looked at a Jewish Bible? I think not. They say just what I have been saying.

Another Jewish version says this: "Thy throne given of God is forever and ever." The Holy Scriptures/ Jewish Publication Society, according to the Masoretic Text, "with the aid of previous versions and with constant consultation of Jewish Authorities. The throne is given to the King by God.

Another version of the Jewish Bible says this: "Your divine throne is everlasting; your royal scepter is a scepter of equity. You love righteousness and hate wickedness; rightly has God, your God, chosen to anoint you with oil of gladness over all your peers." Tanakh, the Holy Scriptures, the New JPS Translation according to the traditional Hebrew Text.

It is clear from the three Jewish Bibles I have quoted that the text does not say "thy throne O God." You have said that the Jews know what they are saying, and yet you don't accept what they have said in this scripture from the Psalms. It is clear as well that the King has a God.

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Re: The Definition of God

Post #296

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 12:24 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 1:26 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:01 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:11 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 1:44 pm
Difflugia wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 3:53 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 1:13 pm
Capbook wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 11:19 amDo the Hebrew text of Psa 45:6, say what you are saying also? There is no word "is" there.
The Hebrew text, as seen in the Jewish Bible Society's version, is: "Your divine throne is everlasting." This is how Hebrew writers interpreted the verse. Look it up in a Jewish Bible.
That's one English translator's reading of the Hebrew text. The four Hebrew words mean "throne (you) | God | always | and always." The words for always are different, but synonyms; "eternal and forever" or some such.

The JPS translations (1917 and 1985) are both modern translations. To claim that they somehow represent Judaism of antiquity is just talking through your hat. Furthermore, "your divine throne" isn't remotely the same as "your throne is God" and the Septuagint reading cannot be back-translated as "your divine throne."
That is not true. I have accurately presented the facts of this in a previous post which apparently you have ignored.
Do the the Jews embraced the NT?
What they consider Scriptures is only the OT. Not the Bible.
That is clear that the Jewish Bible Society is a translation.
Would you consider then the original Hebrew text is wrong because of your preferred translation of Psa 45:6?
The original text in the O.T. wrought by Jews is correct. The writer of Hebrews quoted it from the Hebrew Scriptures (what we call the O.T.) with the same meaning as the Jews' translation. "Your divine throne is forever..." All the power came from God to make Jesus the King of His government. The power can be said to be the "throne." "God is your throne forever" would be the meaning.
These are the facts I now presented to you, the original Hebrew text Psa 45:6 and Greek text of Heb 1:8 and it does not say what you've said.

Psa 45:6 Thy throne, H3678  O God, H430  is for ever H5769  and ever: H5703  the sceptre H7626  of thy kingdom H4438  is a right H4334  sceptre. H7626
Psa 45:7 כסאך H3678  אלהים H430  עולם H5769  ועד H5703  שׁבט H7626  מישׁר H4334  שׁבט H7626  מלכותך׃ H4438 

Heb 1:8 But G1161  unto G4314  the G3588  Son G5207  he saith, Thy G4675  throne, G2362  O God, G2316  is for ever and ever: G1519 G165 G165  a sceptre G4464  of righteousness G2118  is the G3588  sceptre G4464  of thy G4675  kingdom. G932
Heb 1:8 προς G4314 PREP  δε G1161 CONJ  τον G3588 T-ASM  υιον G5207 N-ASM  ο G3588 T-NSM  θρονος G2362 N-NSM  σου G4771 P-2GS  ο G3588 T-NSM  θεος G2316 N-NSM  εις G1519 PREP  τον G3588 T-ASM  αιωνα G165 N-ASM  του G3588 T-GSM  αιωνος G165 N-GSM  ραβδος G4464 N-NSF  ευθυτητος G2118 N-GSF  η G3588 T-NSF  ραβδος G4464 N-NSF  της G3588 T-GSF  βασιλειας G932 N-GSF  σου G4771 P-2GS
You prefer to ignore all that I have previously posted about this. I don't think we'll get anywhere in the discussion by going around and around, you asking the same questions over and over, which I answered as clearly as I could. Have you actually looked at a Jewish Bible? I think not. They say just what I have been saying.

Another Jewish version says this: "Thy throne given of God is forever and ever." The Holy Scriptures/ Jewish Publication Society, according to the Masoretic Text, "with the aid of previous versions and with constant consultation of Jewish Authorities. The throne is given to the King by God.

Another version of the Jewish Bible says this: "Your divine throne is everlasting; your royal scepter is a scepter of equity. You love righteousness and hate wickedness; rightly has God, your God, chosen to anoint you with oil of gladness over all your peers." Tanakh, the Holy Scriptures, the New JPS Translation according to the traditional Hebrew Text.

It is clear from the three Jewish Bibles I have quoted that the text does not say "thy throne O God." You have said that the Jews know what they are saying, and yet you don't accept what they have said in this scripture from the Psalms. It is clear as well that the King has a God.
I have posted the original text of Hebrew and original Greek of the subject verses but you have not.
You have not presented facts of originals, just citing versions and translations.
Can't you not post your Hebrew and Greek text just like what I did?

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Re: The Definition of God

Post #297

Post by slowrider »

Delphi wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:57 pm God is often defined as having various extraordinary characteristics. Infinitely loving, all powerful, omniscient, the creator of the Universe, etc.

How can we know that this is indeed true? How can we verify such grandiose assertions?
The Holy Ghost.

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Re: The Definition of God

Post #298

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:16 pm
onewithhim wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 12:24 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 1:26 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:01 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:11 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 1:44 pm
Difflugia wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 3:53 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 1:13 pm
Capbook wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 11:19 amDo the Hebrew text of Psa 45:6, say what you are saying also? There is no word "is" there.
The Hebrew text, as seen in the Jewish Bible Society's version, is: "Your divine throne is everlasting." This is how Hebrew writers interpreted the verse. Look it up in a Jewish Bible.
That's one English translator's reading of the Hebrew text. The four Hebrew words mean "throne (you) | God | always | and always." The words for always are different, but synonyms; "eternal and forever" or some such.

The JPS translations (1917 and 1985) are both modern translations. To claim that they somehow represent Judaism of antiquity is just talking through your hat. Furthermore, "your divine throne" isn't remotely the same as "your throne is God" and the Septuagint reading cannot be back-translated as "your divine throne."
That is not true. I have accurately presented the facts of this in a previous post which apparently you have ignored.
Do the the Jews embraced the NT?
What they consider Scriptures is only the OT. Not the Bible.
That is clear that the Jewish Bible Society is a translation.
Would you consider then the original Hebrew text is wrong because of your preferred translation of Psa 45:6?
The original text in the O.T. wrought by Jews is correct. The writer of Hebrews quoted it from the Hebrew Scriptures (what we call the O.T.) with the same meaning as the Jews' translation. "Your divine throne is forever..." All the power came from God to make Jesus the King of His government. The power can be said to be the "throne." "God is your throne forever" would be the meaning.
These are the facts I now presented to you, the original Hebrew text Psa 45:6 and Greek text of Heb 1:8 and it does not say what you've said.

Psa 45:6 Thy throne, H3678  O God, H430  is for ever H5769  and ever: H5703  the sceptre H7626  of thy kingdom H4438  is a right H4334  sceptre. H7626
Psa 45:7 כסאך H3678  אלהים H430  עולם H5769  ועד H5703  שׁבט H7626  מישׁר H4334  שׁבט H7626  מלכותך׃ H4438 

Heb 1:8 But G1161  unto G4314  the G3588  Son G5207  he saith, Thy G4675  throne, G2362  O God, G2316  is for ever and ever: G1519 G165 G165  a sceptre G4464  of righteousness G2118  is the G3588  sceptre G4464  of thy G4675  kingdom. G932
Heb 1:8 προς G4314 PREP  δε G1161 CONJ  τον G3588 T-ASM  υιον G5207 N-ASM  ο G3588 T-NSM  θρονος G2362 N-NSM  σου G4771 P-2GS  ο G3588 T-NSM  θεος G2316 N-NSM  εις G1519 PREP  τον G3588 T-ASM  αιωνα G165 N-ASM  του G3588 T-GSM  αιωνος G165 N-GSM  ραβδος G4464 N-NSF  ευθυτητος G2118 N-GSF  η G3588 T-NSF  ραβδος G4464 N-NSF  της G3588 T-GSF  βασιλειας G932 N-GSF  σου G4771 P-2GS
You prefer to ignore all that I have previously posted about this. I don't think we'll get anywhere in the discussion by going around and around, you asking the same questions over and over, which I answered as clearly as I could. Have you actually looked at a Jewish Bible? I think not. They say just what I have been saying.

Another Jewish version says this: "Thy throne given of God is forever and ever." The Holy Scriptures/ Jewish Publication Society, according to the Masoretic Text, "with the aid of previous versions and with constant consultation of Jewish Authorities. The throne is given to the King by God.

Another version of the Jewish Bible says this: "Your divine throne is everlasting; your royal scepter is a scepter of equity. You love righteousness and hate wickedness; rightly has God, your God, chosen to anoint you with oil of gladness over all your peers." Tanakh, the Holy Scriptures, the New JPS Translation according to the traditional Hebrew Text.

It is clear from the three Jewish Bibles I have quoted that the text does not say "thy throne O God." You have said that the Jews know what they are saying, and yet you don't accept what they have said in this scripture from the Psalms. It is clear as well that the King has a God.
I have posted the original text of Hebrew and original Greek of the subject verses but you have not.
You have not presented facts of originals, just citing versions and translations.
Can't you not post your Hebrew and Greek text just like what I did?
I don't know how to do it on my computer. I'm "technologically challenged." So we have to go by comparing versions and translations. Please comment on what I posted about the versions and translations.

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Re: The Definition of God

Post #299

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 2:46 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:16 pm
onewithhim wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 12:24 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 1:26 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:01 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:11 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 1:44 pm
Difflugia wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 3:53 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 1:13 pm
Capbook wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 11:19 amDo the Hebrew text of Psa 45:6, say what you are saying also? There is no word "is" there.
The Hebrew text, as seen in the Jewish Bible Society's version, is: "Your divine throne is everlasting." This is how Hebrew writers interpreted the verse. Look it up in a Jewish Bible.
That's one English translator's reading of the Hebrew text. The four Hebrew words mean "throne (you) | God | always | and always." The words for always are different, but synonyms; "eternal and forever" or some such.

The JPS translations (1917 and 1985) are both modern translations. To claim that they somehow represent Judaism of antiquity is just talking through your hat. Furthermore, "your divine throne" isn't remotely the same as "your throne is God" and the Septuagint reading cannot be back-translated as "your divine throne."
That is not true. I have accurately presented the facts of this in a previous post which apparently you have ignored.
Do the the Jews embraced the NT?
What they consider Scriptures is only the OT. Not the Bible.
That is clear that the Jewish Bible Society is a translation.
Would you consider then the original Hebrew text is wrong because of your preferred translation of Psa 45:6?
The original text in the O.T. wrought by Jews is correct. The writer of Hebrews quoted it from the Hebrew Scriptures (what we call the O.T.) with the same meaning as the Jews' translation. "Your divine throne is forever..." All the power came from God to make Jesus the King of His government. The power can be said to be the "throne." "God is your throne forever" would be the meaning.
These are the facts I now presented to you, the original Hebrew text Psa 45:6 and Greek text of Heb 1:8 and it does not say what you've said.

Psa 45:6 Thy throne, H3678  O God, H430  is for ever H5769  and ever: H5703  the sceptre H7626  of thy kingdom H4438  is a right H4334  sceptre. H7626
Psa 45:7 כסאך H3678  אלהים H430  עולם H5769  ועד H5703  שׁבט H7626  מישׁר H4334  שׁבט H7626  מלכותך׃ H4438 

Heb 1:8 But G1161  unto G4314  the G3588  Son G5207  he saith, Thy G4675  throne, G2362  O God, G2316  is for ever and ever: G1519 G165 G165  a sceptre G4464  of righteousness G2118  is the G3588  sceptre G4464  of thy G4675  kingdom. G932
Heb 1:8 προς G4314 PREP  δε G1161 CONJ  τον G3588 T-ASM  υιον G5207 N-ASM  ο G3588 T-NSM  θρονος G2362 N-NSM  σου G4771 P-2GS  ο G3588 T-NSM  θεος G2316 N-NSM  εις G1519 PREP  τον G3588 T-ASM  αιωνα G165 N-ASM  του G3588 T-GSM  αιωνος G165 N-GSM  ραβδος G4464 N-NSF  ευθυτητος G2118 N-GSF  η G3588 T-NSF  ραβδος G4464 N-NSF  της G3588 T-GSF  βασιλειας G932 N-GSF  σου G4771 P-2GS
You prefer to ignore all that I have previously posted about this. I don't think we'll get anywhere in the discussion by going around and around, you asking the same questions over and over, which I answered as clearly as I could. Have you actually looked at a Jewish Bible? I think not. They say just what I have been saying.

Another Jewish version says this: "Thy throne given of God is forever and ever." The Holy Scriptures/ Jewish Publication Society, according to the Masoretic Text, "with the aid of previous versions and with constant consultation of Jewish Authorities. The throne is given to the King by God.

Another version of the Jewish Bible says this: "Your divine throne is everlasting; your royal scepter is a scepter of equity. You love righteousness and hate wickedness; rightly has God, your God, chosen to anoint you with oil of gladness over all your peers." Tanakh, the Holy Scriptures, the New JPS Translation according to the traditional Hebrew Text.

It is clear from the three Jewish Bibles I have quoted that the text does not say "thy throne O God." You have said that the Jews know what they are saying, and yet you don't accept what they have said in this scripture from the Psalms. It is clear as well that the King has a God.
I have posted the original text of Hebrew and original Greek of the subject verses but you have not.
You have not presented facts of originals, just citing versions and translations.
Can't you not post your Hebrew and Greek text just like what I did?
I don't know how to do it on my computer. I'm "technologically challenged." So we have to go by comparing versions and translations. Please comment on what I posted about the versions and translations.
There various translations, some are bias.
It's much better to come to the originals, the roots of Bible words in Hebrew or in Greek.
I believe there are many JW here that can assist you with that.

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onewithhim
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Re: The Definition of God

Post #300

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 2:58 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 2:46 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:16 pm
onewithhim wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 12:24 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 1:26 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:01 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:11 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 1:44 pm
Difflugia wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 3:53 pm
onewithhim wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 1:13 pm The Hebrew text, as seen in the Jewish Bible Society's version, is: "Your divine throne is everlasting." This is how Hebrew writers interpreted the verse. Look it up in a Jewish Bible.
That's one English translator's reading of the Hebrew text. The four Hebrew words mean "throne (you) | God | always | and always." The words for always are different, but synonyms; "eternal and forever" or some such.

The JPS translations (1917 and 1985) are both modern translations. To claim that they somehow represent Judaism of antiquity is just talking through your hat. Furthermore, "your divine throne" isn't remotely the same as "your throne is God" and the Septuagint reading cannot be back-translated as "your divine throne."
That is not true. I have accurately presented the facts of this in a previous post which apparently you have ignored.
Do the the Jews embraced the NT?
What they consider Scriptures is only the OT. Not the Bible.
That is clear that the Jewish Bible Society is a translation.
Would you consider then the original Hebrew text is wrong because of your preferred translation of Psa 45:6?
The original text in the O.T. wrought by Jews is correct. The writer of Hebrews quoted it from the Hebrew Scriptures (what we call the O.T.) with the same meaning as the Jews' translation. "Your divine throne is forever..." All the power came from God to make Jesus the King of His government. The power can be said to be the "throne." "God is your throne forever" would be the meaning.
These are the facts I now presented to you, the original Hebrew text Psa 45:6 and Greek text of Heb 1:8 and it does not say what you've said.

Psa 45:6 Thy throne, H3678  O God, H430  is for ever H5769  and ever: H5703  the sceptre H7626  of thy kingdom H4438  is a right H4334  sceptre. H7626
Psa 45:7 כסאך H3678  אלהים H430  עולם H5769  ועד H5703  שׁבט H7626  מישׁר H4334  שׁבט H7626  מלכותך׃ H4438 

Heb 1:8 But G1161  unto G4314  the G3588  Son G5207  he saith, Thy G4675  throne, G2362  O God, G2316  is for ever and ever: G1519 G165 G165  a sceptre G4464  of righteousness G2118  is the G3588  sceptre G4464  of thy G4675  kingdom. G932
Heb 1:8 προς G4314 PREP  δε G1161 CONJ  τον G3588 T-ASM  υιον G5207 N-ASM  ο G3588 T-NSM  θρονος G2362 N-NSM  σου G4771 P-2GS  ο G3588 T-NSM  θεος G2316 N-NSM  εις G1519 PREP  τον G3588 T-ASM  αιωνα G165 N-ASM  του G3588 T-GSM  αιωνος G165 N-GSM  ραβδος G4464 N-NSF  ευθυτητος G2118 N-GSF  η G3588 T-NSF  ραβδος G4464 N-NSF  της G3588 T-GSF  βασιλειας G932 N-GSF  σου G4771 P-2GS
You prefer to ignore all that I have previously posted about this. I don't think we'll get anywhere in the discussion by going around and around, you asking the same questions over and over, which I answered as clearly as I could. Have you actually looked at a Jewish Bible? I think not. They say just what I have been saying.

Another Jewish version says this: "Thy throne given of God is forever and ever." The Holy Scriptures/ Jewish Publication Society, according to the Masoretic Text, "with the aid of previous versions and with constant consultation of Jewish Authorities. The throne is given to the King by God.

Another version of the Jewish Bible says this: "Your divine throne is everlasting; your royal scepter is a scepter of equity. You love righteousness and hate wickedness; rightly has God, your God, chosen to anoint you with oil of gladness over all your peers." Tanakh, the Holy Scriptures, the New JPS Translation according to the traditional Hebrew Text.

It is clear from the three Jewish Bibles I have quoted that the text does not say "thy throne O God." You have said that the Jews know what they are saying, and yet you don't accept what they have said in this scripture from the Psalms. It is clear as well that the King has a God.
I have posted the original text of Hebrew and original Greek of the subject verses but you have not.
You have not presented facts of originals, just citing versions and translations.
Can't you not post your Hebrew and Greek text just like what I did?
I don't know how to do it on my computer. I'm "technologically challenged." So we have to go by comparing versions and translations. Please comment on what I posted about the versions and translations.
There various translations, some are bias.
It's much better to come to the originals, the roots of Bible words in Hebrew or in Greek.
I believe there are many JW here that can assist you with that.
You are right. It would be better to know Greek and Hebrew. But even I can see the difference in the Greek sentence as to who is THE God and who is "god" without the article.

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