Did Lazarus die a second time?

[placebofactor]

Did Lazarus die a second time? Or was he raised as a model or illustration, incorruptible and immortal?

Okay, let's examine what the Scriptures have to say. There are five or six different Greek words for raised, resurrection, arose, and rise, each having a different meaning. We can rise from sleep, rise from a chair and walk away, and rise from the dead. The word we’re interested in is found in John 11:23. Jesus said to Martha, “Your brother shall ‘rise’ again.” The same word is used in, Matthew 17:9, “Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be ‘risen’ again from the dead.” Also Mark 9:9-10, and Luke 16:31.

Lazarus had been in the grave for four days. In verse 39 Martha said to the Lord, "Lord, by this time he stinks: for he has been dead four days." So, Lazarus’s old body is no longer any good, it is in a stage of decay. So, the guy needed a new body, and Jesus was there to give him one.

Jesus tells Martha, in verse 23, "Thy brother shall rise again." The word rise Jesus used is an intransitive verb, one that expresses an action that is limited to the agent, in this case, (Lazarus). It is in the perfect pluperfect; a tense which denotes that an action or event is to take place previous to another past action or event. It’s used against the following backdrop when Jesus said in verses 25-26.

“I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die.”

The resurrection of the dead was a finished work confirmed in heaven from the beginning of the creation. Revelation 13:8, Jesus is said to be, “A Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Believers are foreordained before the foundation of the world to be raised to everlasting life, and our names have been written in the Book of Life. To claim that Lazarus died a second time is to deny the following scriptures. Hebrews 9:27, “It is appointed unto (All) men once to die,”

Your thoughts.

[JehovahsWitness]

we do have a strong clue in Hebrews 9:27, "It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment," The verse suggests that judgment for each individual follows death immediately.

Emphasis MINE


After does not equate to immediately after. For example, if a woman has a baby AFTER marriage , that does not impose that she was in labour during the wedding reception or that they cut the ombilical cord before they cut the cake. Hebrews 9 indicates sequence but not time constraint.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

What say this woman to whom you are referring had a sexual encounter with her new husband 9 months earlier to the day of her wedding. ...

Obviously "after" can mean immediately after or not, but without a modifier your statement below is false.

... The verse suggests that judgment for each individual follows death immediately.

There is nothing in the verse itself that imposes or even suggests immediacy.


JW

[myth-one.com]

we do have a strong clue in Hebrews 9:27, "It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment," The verse suggests that judgment for each individual follows death immediately.

Emphasis MINE


After does not equate to immediately after.

Correct. It is not logical for the dead to face judgment, as the dead know nothing.

The scriptures state that judgment begins after nonbelievers are resurrected to human life after the Millennium period of rest.

The Millennium begins at the Second Coming.

Nonbelievers will be resurrected a thousand years after the Second Coming and face judgment beginning at that time.

[onewithhim]

Did Lazarus die a second time? Or was he raised as a model or illustration, incorruptible and immortal?

Okay, let's examine what the Scriptures have to say. There are five or six different Greek words for raised, resurrection, arose, and rise, each having a different meaning. We can rise from sleep, rise from a chair and walk away, and rise from the dead. The word we’re interested in is found in John 11:23. Jesus said to Martha, “Your brother shall ‘rise’ again.” The same word is used in, Matthew 17:9, “Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be ‘risen’ again from the dead.” Also Mark 9:9-10, and Luke 16:31.

Lazarus had been in the grave for four days. In verse 39 Martha said to the Lord, "Lord, by this time he stinks: for he has been dead four days." So, Lazarus’s old body is no longer any good, it is in a stage of decay. So, the guy needed a new body, and Jesus was there to give him one.

Jesus tells Martha, in verse 23, "Thy brother shall rise again." The word rise Jesus used is an intransitive verb, one that expresses an action that is limited to the agent, in this case, (Lazarus). It is in the perfect pluperfect; a tense which denotes that an action or event is to take place previous to another past action or event. It’s used against the following backdrop when Jesus said in verses 25-26.

“I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die.”

The resurrection of the dead was a finished work confirmed in heaven from the beginning of the creation. Revelation 13:8, Jesus is said to be, “A Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Believers are foreordained before the foundation of the world to be raised to everlasting life, and our names have been written in the Book of Life. To claim that Lazarus died a second time is to deny the following scriptures. Hebrews 9:27, “It is appointed unto (All) men once to die,”

Your thoughts.

Yes Lazarus died a second time. The appointment for all to die once was a general statement. Lazarus and a few others were unique cases, carried out to show what God, through Jesus, will do "in the last day."

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

Let's examine how the Bible considers man's first death. When the first death of any man is discussed in the Bible, the words used to describe that event are sleep, slumber, or rest. Only man, among all the animals is said to sleep, slumber, or rest when he dies. In fact, when Jesus raised people from the dead, He often stated that they were not dead, but simply asleep:

Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. (John 11:11)

And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn... (Mark 5:39-40)

Was Jesus lying, or did He know something which no one else knew? Of course, the answer is the latter. If Jesus lied about the dead being asleep when they were actually dead, then He sinned and could not be a valid sacrifice for the sins of mankind.

If true death is final, then our first death is not death at all. It does not meet the definition of death. That is, it is not final. As doctors and medical technicians "restore life" to someone after their heart has stopped for twenty minutes, God is going to restore the physical life of nonbelievers many years after their first "death" at the second resurrection. In many cases after having been "dead" for thousands of years. Therefore, their first death is not actually a death because it is not final and permanent. They will live again. It is final to us here on the earth. That is, man cannot restore another man's life after his first death, only God can. So Jesus did not lie when He stated that Lazarus' stinking body which had been lying in the grave for four days was only sleeping:

Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days. (John 11:39)

When pressed, Jesus spoke plainly and stated that Lazarus was indeed dead. Plainly indicates that Jesus spoke in terms of how man understands death:

Then Jesus said unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. (John 11:14)

In neither case, when Jesus said Lazarus was asleep nor when He said Lazarus was dead, did He lie. Both statements are true! One was from God's point of view, and the other was from man's point of view. From God's perspective, there is one true death, the second death.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

Let's examine how the Bible considers man's first death. When the first death of any man is discussed in the Bible, the words used to describe that event are sleep, slumber, or rest. Only man, among all the animals is said to sleep, slumber, or rest when he dies. In fact, when Jesus raised people from the dead, He often stated that they were not dead, but simply asleep:

Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. (John 11:11)

And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn... (Mark 5:39-40)

Was Jesus lying, or did He know something which no one else knew? Of course, the answer is the latter. If Jesus lied about the dead being asleep when they were actually dead, then He sinned and could not be a valid sacrifice for the sins of mankind.

If true death is final, then our first death is not death at all. It does not meet the definition of death. That is, it is not final. As doctors and medical technicians "restore life" to someone after their heart has stopped for twenty minutes, God is going to restore the physical life of nonbelievers many years after their first "death" at the second resurrection. In many cases after having been "dead" for thousands of years. Therefore, their first death is not actually a death because it is not final and permanent. They will live again. It is final to us here on the earth. That is, man cannot restore another man's life after his first death, only God can. So Jesus did not lie when He stated that Lazarus' stinking body which had been lying in the grave for four days was only sleeping:

Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days. (John 11:39)

When pressed, Jesus spoke plainly and stated that Lazarus was indeed dead. Plainly indicates that Jesus spoke in terms of how man understands death:

Then Jesus said unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. (John 11:14)

In neither case, when Jesus said Lazarus was asleep nor when He said Lazarus was dead, did He lie. Both statements are true! One was from God's point of view, and the other was from man's point of view. From God's perspective, there is one true death, the second death.

Good post!

Several years ago, seeds were found in an old barn. They were said to be 100 years old. They were supposed to be dead, but, lo and behold, they were planted and grew. I'm not sure if the D.N.A. of anything living can be completely wiped out by decomposing in the ground or at sea even after thousands of years. But even if it did, the LORD would have a copy of it in his extensive files. He took old bones from the ancient graves in Israel, put flesh on them, blew the breath of life into them, and they walked into Jerusalem. And they were witnessed by many people. Matthew 27:52-53.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

Let's examine how the Bible considers man's first death. When the first death of any man is discussed in the Bible, the words used to describe that event are sleep, slumber, or rest. Only man, among all the animals is said to sleep, slumber, or rest when he dies. In fact, when Jesus raised people from the dead, He often stated that they were not dead, but simply asleep:

Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. (John 11:11)

And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn... (Mark 5:39-40)

Was Jesus lying, or did He know something which no one else knew? Of course, the answer is the latter. If Jesus lied about the dead being asleep when they were actually dead, then He sinned and could not be a valid sacrifice for the sins of mankind.

If true death is final, then our first death is not death at all. It does not meet the definition of death. That is, it is not final. As doctors and medical technicians "restore life" to someone after their heart has stopped for twenty minutes, God is going to restore the physical life of nonbelievers many years after their first "death" at the second resurrection. In many cases after having been "dead" for thousands of years. Therefore, their first death is not actually a death because it is not final and permanent. They will live again. It is final to us here on the earth. That is, man cannot restore another man's life after his first death, only God can. So Jesus did not lie when He stated that Lazarus' stinking body which had been lying in the grave for four days was only sleeping:

Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days. (John 11:39)

When pressed, Jesus spoke plainly and stated that Lazarus was indeed dead. Plainly indicates that Jesus spoke in terms of how man understands death:

Then Jesus said unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. (John 11:14)

In neither case, when Jesus said Lazarus was asleep nor when He said Lazarus was dead, did He lie. Both statements are true! One was from God's point of view, and the other was from man's point of view. From God's perspective, there is one true death, the second death.

Good post!

Several years ago, seeds were found in an old barn. They were said to be 100 years old. They were supposed to be dead, but, lo and behold, they were planted and grew. I'm not sure if the D.N.A. of anything living can be completely wiped out by decomposing in the ground or at sea even after thousands of years. But even if it did, the LORD would have a copy of it in his extensive files. He took old bones from the ancient graves in Israel, put flesh on them, blew the breath of life into them, and they walked into Jerusalem. And they were witnessed by many people. Matthew 27:52-53.

Yes, it seems that life is very tenacious! Here's another interesting example:

The Apollo 12 Lunar Module landed 512 feet from a previous lunar lander -- the Surveyor 3. The Apollo 12 crew retrieved the Surveyor 3 spacecraft's camera and returned it to Earth under sterile conditions.

50-100 microorganisms were recovered from inside that camera! The 50-100 organisms survived launch, space vacuum, nearly 3 years of radiation exposure, deep-freeze at an average temperature of only 20 degrees above absolute zero, and no nutrient, water or energy source. Upon being put in liquid, the common Streptococcus mitis bacteria revived itself after 2.6 years on the moon!

So even when out finest scientists attempt to restrict extraneous life from reaching the moon, they sometimes fail.

<=============================>

And note that the Bible kinda hints that there may be life on other planets:

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. (John 10:14-16)

Jesus was relating a parable to the Jews when He made this statement. So the sheep referred to could be the Jews. If that is the case, then the sheep not of this Jewish fold would be the gentiles. Remember that Jesus came first to the Jews, then to the gentiles.

However, the entire flock of earthly sheep for which Jesus gave His life is every human on the Earth. "Whosoever" includes Jews and gentiles. If this is the meaning of the verse, then where are the sheep which are not of this fold? That is, if Jesus died for all the sheep in the fold of the Earth, and He has sheep which are not of the fold of the Earth; then where are these other sheep which He must bring together into this fold?

Jesus could be referring to the angels which revolted on the earth and are currently imprisoned in hell. These sheep would certainly not be of this fold. That is, on the earth:

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:6)

These angels are no longer in the fold of the earth, so it's possible that Jesus is speaking of them. Otherwise, the sheep not in this fold could be on another planet or planets. That is, the earth may not be the only inhabited planet. If the earth is not the only planet with intelligent life, it is a very special planet, because God sent His only Son to die for the sins of earthlings. Can you imagine God the Father calling Jesus in and asking, "How often is it that your Father asks you to do something? We have another rebellious planet and I would like for you to go there as a mortal, live a sinless life, you know...

[placebofactor]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #16]

Myth-one.com wrote, "These angels are no longer in the fold of the earth, so it's possible that Jesus is speaking of them. Otherwise, the sheep not in this fold could be on another planet or planets. That is, the earth may not be the only inhabited planet. If the earth is not the only planet with intelligent life, it is a very special planet, because God sent His only Son to die for the sins of earthlings. Can you imagine God the Father calling Jesus in and asking, "How often is it that your Father asks you to do something? We have another rebellious planet and I would like for you to go there as a mortal, live a sinless life, you know..."

They were the angels of heaven who left their place and came down to the earth with Lucifer.

It may be the following group of angels Revelation 9:2-3, who have been confined in hell because they were so evil and powerful, that they could not be released before their time. "He opened the bottomless pit: Verse 3, "There came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power."

Revelation 16:13, "Three unclean spirits like frogs came out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. These are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world."

The first beast of Revelation 13 is said to "come out of the bottomless pit."