GEHENNA, a place of fiery torture?

[onewithhim]

Jesus warned his disciples against suffering the judgment of Gehenna. Was he referring to a burning hell of everlasting torture? (Matthew 5:22)

The Greek word Ge'en na corresponds to the Hebrew geh veneh-Hin nom,---Valley of the sons of Hinnom. It became a garbage dump for Jerusalem, serving as an incinerator where fires were kept burning to dispose of rubbish, and anything thrown into this dump would be completely destroyed, turned into ashes.

Many Bible translators haven rendered Ge' en na as "hell." (Matthew 5:22, KJV) Why is this? (Since Gehenna and hell are two different things.) Because they associated the pagan-inspired notion of an afterlife of fiery judgment for the wicked with the physical fire in the valley outside Jerusalem. Jesus, though, did not associate Gehenna with torture. He knew that the thought of burning people alive is repugnant to Jehovah. He referred to the use made of Gehenna in the days of the prophet Jeremiah. God said: "They have built the high places of Topheth which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." Burning people was not something that God can countenance, and He can't to this day. A good point is that the idea of torture for the dead conflicts with God's loving personality as well as with the Bible's clear teaching that "the dead are conscious of nothing." (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10)

Jesus used the term "Gehenna" to symbolize the utter destruction that would come from God's judgment on the wicked. So...."Gehenna" means, similarly, the lake of fire in Revelation. Both symbolize eternal destruction from which there is no resurrection. (Luke 12:4,5; Revelation 20:14,15.

Doesn't this sound more merciful than people being tortured in a never-ending fire? The fire symbolizes complete annihilation, just like what the fires in Gehenna did to trash and bodies of criminals.

[John17_3]

God is immortal because He is a spirit.

I have never read this in the Bible, and I am sure you have not either, so while this is your personal opinion. it would not serve to be useful at this time.

John 4:24

God is a Spirit:

Your claim was,
God is immortal because He is a spirit.

The scripture at John 4:24 reads,
For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.”

The scriptures do not say God is immortal because he is a spirit.
I am asking you to support that statement with scripture.

You made that claim in order to claim that spirits are immortal, didn't you?
Well, no scriptures supports that.

Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden to prevent them from eating of the Tree of Life and living forever like God and the angels:

Genesis 3:

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

That's okay. We have discussed that.

We were talking about spirit.
So you agree the scriptures do not say God is immortal because he is a spirit.
That's settled then. The scriptures do not say the angels are immortal. We can move on then.

All spiritual bodied beings are immortal.

God is a Spirit.

Thus, God is immortal.

Since this is only a claim, is that to say that is all you are able to submit?

It's from the scriptures:

There are two type of living beings, natural and spiritual:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:44)

And God and the angels live forever as stated in Genesis chapter 3.

Mankind was expelled from the Garden of Eden to prevent them from eating of the Tree of Life and thus living forever like God and the angels:

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Genesis 3:22-23)

If Adam and Eve ate from the tree of Life, they would become immortal like God and the angels!

So God and the other spirits are immortals!

The spirit Satan, for example, will be imprisoned in the lake of fire eternally, because he is an immortal spirit.

<==============================================>

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Believers will gain everlasting life by being born again of the Spirit (God) as a spirit into the spiritual Kingdom of God:


Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:7)

If someone makes claims to you, a thousand times, do you think the claims will become truth?
You have repeatedly made these claims myth, but the Bible says something quite different to what you claim.

The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. Romans 16:20
And I will put enmity between you [Satan] and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. He will crush your [Satan's] head, and you will strike his heel.” Genesis 3:15
Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself [Jesus] likewise shared in the same, that through [his] death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, Hebrews 2:14

I asked you a few questions several times, and you have not answered.
I'll repeat the questions, along with the scriptures.

1. Are you saying the Lake of fire does not symbolize the second death? Revelation 20:14
2. Does the wild beast symbolize the political world powers? Revelation 17:10, 11
3. How is the beast tormented forever, when the beast is the world powers? Revelation 20:10
4. Does the Bible say the Devil will be destroyed? Hebrews 2:14

Since the Bible says the Devil will be destroyed, and the lake of fire is symbolic of the second death, that means the way you have interpreted the scriptures are contrary to what the scriptures are actually saying.

1. You believe the angels are immortal, but the Bible contradicts that belief.
2. You believe that the lake of fire is a literal lake of fire, and the Bible contradicts that belief.

Ii is better to go with the scriptures, rather than assume an interpretation we have is correct, and cling to that.

Peter said that some things are hard to understand, and it is not beneficial to have a wrong conclusion, based on our own ideas. 2 Peter 3:16
I hope you do see where the scriptures are providing correction. 2 Timothy 3:16, 17

[myth-one.com]

I asked you a few questions several times, and you have not answered.
I'll repeat the questions, along with the scriptures.

OK.

Are you saying the Lake of fire does not symbolize death? Revelation 20:14

The lake of fire is a lake of fire.

Those humans who are cast into the lake of fire actually suffer their "second death". There is no "symbolizing." Those humans cast into the lake of fire die.

Does the wild beast symbolize the political world powers? Revelation 17:10, 11

Beats me.

How is the beast tormented forever, when the beast is the world powers? Revelation 20:10

Where is the beast stated to be the "world powers"?

Does the Bible say the Devil will be destroyed? Hebrews 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; (Hebrews 2:14)

The devil is the ruler over the earth. The Word was made flesh as Jesus so that He might destroy the devil's power over mankind's death.

Since the Bible says the Devil will be destroyed, and the lake of fire is symbolic of the second death, that means the way you have interpreted the scriptures are contrary to what the scriptures are actually saying.

The lake of fire is not symbolic. What does "symbolic fire" burn? Symbols?

You believe the angels are immortal, but the Bible contradicts that belief.

Please provide chapter & verse.

You believe that the lake of fire is a literal lake of fire, and the Bible contradicts that belief.

Please provide chapter & verse.

It is better to go with the scriptures.

Correct.

[John17_3]

I asked you a few questions several times, and you have not answered.
I'll repeat the questions, along with the scriptures.

OK.

Are you saying the Lake of fire does not symbolize death? Revelation 20:14

The lake of fire is a lake of fire.

That is what you say.
That is not what the angel says, or John.
They say the Lake of fire is the second death.

Those humans who are cast into the lake of fire actually suffer their "second death". There is no "symbolizing." Those humans cast into the lake of fire die.

Oh. They die? Where did you read "they die". Show me please.

Does the wild beast symbolize the political world powers? Revelation 17:10, 11

Beats me.

Okay. Is the beast literal, or symbolic?

How is the beast tormented forever, when the beast is the world powers? Revelation 20:10

Where is the beast stated to be the "world powers"?

The beast is symbolic. Its heads and horns symbolize the kings ruling 7 dominant powers from past, till present.
John mentions 5 that fell; 1 in existence; 1 that will rise. Revelation 17:9-12
Collectively, these powers are the beast.
If you do not have any idea what the beast is, I can well appreciate that, based on the opening statement of Revelation 17:9.

Does the Bible say the Devil will be destroyed? Hebrews 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; (Hebrews 2:14)

The devil is the ruler over the earth. The Word was made flesh as Jesus so that He might destroy the devil's power over mankind's death.

The Bible does not say that.
You just quoted the words : "he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil"
Why are you changing the words of the Bible?

Since the Bible says the Devil will be destroyed, and the lake of fire is symbolic of the second death, that means the way you have interpreted the scriptures are contrary to what the scriptures are actually saying.

The lake of fire is not symbolic. What does "symbolic fire" burn? Symbols?

That question does not have anything to do with the scriptures.
That seem to be drawing into an interpretation argument.

You believe the angels are immortal, but the Bible contradicts that belief.

Please provide chapter & verse.

I did, several times.

You believe that the lake of fire is a literal lake of fire, and the Bible contradicts that belief.

Please provide chapter & verse.

i did, several times.

It is better to go with the scriptures.

Correct.

Let's see.
How does Hebrews 2:14 read? Does it say destroy the Devil, or do Destroy the Devil's power?
Does the Bible say the Lake of fire is the second death? Does the Bible say the woman is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”?
Is the lake of fire symbolic of the second death? Is the woman symbolic of the great city that rules over the kings of the earth?
Please explain your answers.

[myth-one.com]

Let's see.
How does Hebrews 2:14 read? Does it say destroy the Devil, or do Destroy the Devil's power?
Does the Bible say the Lake of fire is the second death? Does the Bible say the woman is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”?
Is the lake of fire symbolic of the second death? Is the woman symbolic of the great city that rules over the kings of the earth?
Please explain your answers.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Is the devil which is in Hebrews 2:14 the same as the one in Revelation 20:10??

If so, then the word "destroy" in Hebrews 2:14 does not mean to kill.

If the devil is killed or terminated somehow in Hebrews 2:14, then he cannot be tormented day and night forever in Revelation 20:10 -- as the dead know nothing.

[onewithhim]

Let's see.
How does Hebrews 2:14 read? Does it say destroy the Devil, or do Destroy the Devil's power?
Does the Bible say the Lake of fire is the second death? Does the Bible say the woman is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”?
Is the lake of fire symbolic of the second death? Is the woman symbolic of the great city that rules over the kings of the earth?
Please explain your answers.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Is the devil which is in Hebrews 2:14 the same as the one in Revelation 20:10??

If so, then the word "destroy" in Hebrews 2:14 does not mean to kill.

If the devil is killed or terminated somehow in Hebrews 2:14, then he cannot be tormented day and night forever in Revelation 20:10 -- as the dead know nothing.

Yes he can be "tormented" day and night because the word comes from a root word meaning to "jail." To jail the devil could very well mean that he is prevented from doing anything anymore because he will be dead.

[myth-one.com]

Let's see.
How does Hebrews 2:14 read? Does it say destroy the Devil, or do Destroy the Devil's power?
Does the Bible say the Lake of fire is the second death? Does the Bible say the woman is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”?
Is the lake of fire symbolic of the second death? Is the woman symbolic of the great city that rules over the kings of the earth?
Please explain your answers.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Is the devil which is in Hebrews 2:14 the same as the one in Revelation 20:10??

If so, then the word "destroy" in Hebrews 2:14 does not mean to kill.

If the devil is killed or terminated somehow in Hebrews 2:14, then he cannot be tormented day and night forever in Revelation 20:10 -- as the dead know nothing.

Yes he can be "tormented" day and night because the word comes from a root word meaning to "jail." To jail the devil could very well mean that he is prevented from doing anything anymore because he will be dead.

Here we go again.

The dead know nothing.

So the devil could not know torment forever as the Bible clearly states if he was dead!!!!!!!

Since the devil DOES know torment forever, the devil is alive forever.

Otherwise, the devil would not know torment.

And there is no cause to jail the dead.

What part of that do you not understand?

[John17_3]

Let's see.
How does Hebrews 2:14 read? Does it say destroy the Devil, or do Destroy the Devil's power?
Does the Bible say the Lake of fire is the second death? Does the Bible say the woman is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”?
Is the lake of fire symbolic of the second death? Is the woman symbolic of the great city that rules over the kings of the earth?
Please explain your answers.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Is the devil which is in Hebrews 2:14 the same as the one in Revelation 20:10??

If so, then the word "destroy" in Hebrews 2:14 does not mean to kill.

If the devil is killed or terminated somehow in Hebrews 2:14, then he cannot be tormented day and night forever in Revelation 20:10 -- as the dead know nothing.

Well a moment ago, you were willing to insert a word to claim that Christ destroys the power of the Devil - Satan the Devil.
Now you are questioning if there are two different Devils, and if not, you want to change the word destroy to kill.


What is happening here myth, as far as the evidence goes, is that the Bible says one thing and you say another, but since you believe what you say must be correct, then there must be something wrong with what the scriptures say.
In that case, if the scriptures are not the authority, how will you be corrected?

You didn't answer my questions.
Does the Bible say the Lake of fire is the second death? Does the Bible say the woman is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”?
Is the lake of fire symbolic of the second death? Is the woman symbolic of the great city that rules over the kings of the earth?
Please explain your answers.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to John17_3 in post #147]

The devil cannot be killed.

[onewithhim]

Let's see.
How does Hebrews 2:14 read? Does it say destroy the Devil, or do Destroy the Devil's power?
Does the Bible say the Lake of fire is the second death? Does the Bible say the woman is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”?
Is the lake of fire symbolic of the second death? Is the woman symbolic of the great city that rules over the kings of the earth?
Please explain your answers.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Is the devil which is in Hebrews 2:14 the same as the one in Revelation 20:10??

If so, then the word "destroy" in Hebrews 2:14 does not mean to kill.

If the devil is killed or terminated somehow in Hebrews 2:14, then he cannot be tormented day and night forever in Revelation 20:10 -- as the dead know nothing.

Yes he can be "tormented" day and night because the word comes from a root word meaning to "jail." To jail the devil could very well mean that he is prevented from doing anything anymore because he will be dead.

Here we go again.

The dead know nothing.

So the devil could not know torment forever as the Bible clearly states if he was dead!!!!!!!

Since the devil DOES know torment forever, the devil is alive forever.

Otherwise, the devil would not know torment.

And there is no cause to jail the dead.

What part of that do you not understand?

You do not understand symbolism. The devil isn't literally jailed, as in a room with bars on it. The word is used to get across the meaning that he will be out of commission forever.

[Tcg]

What part of that do you not understand?

You do not understand symbolism.

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