The Origin and Destiny of man

[Revelations won]

True religion should clearly answer the question of the origin and destiny of man.

1. Where did we come from?

2 Why are we here?

3. What is the eternal destiny of man?

May we hear your clear knowledge of the above questions.

[John17_3]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #40]

The only way any man can become immortal is to be born of the Spirit as a spirit.

So, eating from the tree of knowledge of good and bad, would not have made Adam immortal. Good.
So, to my question "So did God created the tree of life so that man could live forever?", you answered yes.
Since the tree does not have any powers, to make the man immortal, how would he have been able to live forever?

That which is born of the Spirit is spirit, and spirits are immortal.

The angels that rebelled will be destroyed forever. They are not immortal, though spirits.
God is the one who makes persons immortal, and the only ones that are immortal, like God, are those, given an immortal body. 1 Corinthians 15:23, 35-42

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

The Bible states that every deceased human will be resurrected back to life from their first appointed death. That being the case, then our appointed first "death" is not truly death as it is not permanent. Thus, the Bible often describes one's first death as sleep, slumber, or rest. Rest In Peace is common on headstones.

The Bible says that those who die, their life has ended, and all vital functions cease.
Therefore, every deceased person experienced death.
Genesis 5:5; Genesis 23:1, 2; Genesis 25:7, 8; Genesis 35:18, 19; Genesis 35:29; Genesis 47:28-48:1; Leviticus 24:17, 18; 1 Chronicles 23:1; Job 7:1; Psalm 39:4, 5; Psalm 89:47; Psalm 90:10; Ecclesiastes 5:18-20; Ecclesiastes 6:12; Ecclesiastes 9:3-10; Matthew 16:25, 26; Mark 8:35-37; Luke 6:9; Luke 9:24; Acts 8:33; James 4:14;

Since everyone who tasted death, is dead - deceased - lifeless, the resurrection hope is their only hope of seeing life again
Hence, Revelation 20:13, 14; Revelation 21:4, and 1 Corinthians 15:54-56, speaks of the end of death.

The second death is the only true permanent death.

Death is permanent for the wicked, because there is no resurrection for these. Job 11:20; Proverbs 10:28; Proverbs 11:7

One's appointed first "death" is not permanent as all of the dead will be resurrected to life again. It does not fit the definition of death, and it does not pay the wages of any sin.

The only true death is the second death from which there is no recovery or resurrection. Thus, the second death pays the wages for our sins.

The scriptures say different.
The apostle Paul called death an enemy because it is real.
Jesus referred to the one who causes death - the devil, because death is real.

Death is mentioned over 2000 times in the Bible, stating from Genesis, and it mentions Abraham's death.
Yes, Abraham will be resurrected, but will the Israelites God caused to wander in the wilderness, until their death... will they be resurrected?
The Bible speaks of the sin for which their is no forgiveness. This is permanent death. Hebrews 10:26-31

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #40]

The only way any man can become immortal is to be born of the Spirit as a spirit.

So, eating from the tree of knowledge of good and bad, would not have made Adam immortal. Good.
So, to my question "So did God created the tree of life so that man could live forever?", you answered yes.
Since the tree does not have any powers, to make the man immortal, how would he have been able to live forever?

That which is born of the Spirit is spirit, and spirits are immortal.

The angels that rebelled will be destroyed forever. They are not immortal, though spirits.
God is the one who makes persons immortal, and the only ones that are immortal, like God, are those, given an immortal body. 1 Corinthians 15:23, 35-42

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

The Bible states that every deceased human will be resurrected back to life from their first appointed death. That being the case, then our appointed first "death" is not truly death as it is not permanent. Thus, the Bible often describes one's first death as sleep, slumber, or rest. Rest In Peace is common on headstones.

The Bible says that those who die, their life has ended, and all vital functions cease.
Therefore, every deceased person experienced death.
Genesis 5:5; Genesis 23:1, 2; Genesis 25:7, 8; Genesis 35:18, 19; Genesis 35:29; Genesis 47:28-48:1; Leviticus 24:17, 18; 1 Chronicles 23:1; Job 7:1; Psalm 39:4, 5; Psalm 89:47; Psalm 90:10; Ecclesiastes 5:18-20; Ecclesiastes 6:12; Ecclesiastes 9:3-10; Matthew 16:25, 26; Mark 8:35-37; Luke 6:9; Luke 9:24; Acts 8:33; James 4:14;

Since everyone who tasted death, is dead - deceased - lifeless, the resurrection hope is their only hope of seeing life again
Hence, Revelation 20:13, 14; Revelation 21:4, and 1 Corinthians 15:54-56, speaks of the end of death.

The second death is the only true permanent death.

Death is permanent for the wicked, because there is no resurrection for these. Job 11:20; Proverbs 10:28; Proverbs 11:7

One's appointed first "death" is not permanent as all of the dead will be resurrected to life again. It does not fit the definition of death, and it does not pay the wages of any sin.

The only true death is the second death from which there is no recovery or resurrection. Thus, the second death pays the wages for our sins.

The scriptures say different.
The apostle Paul called death an enemy because it is real.
Jesus referred to the one who causes death - the devil, because death is real.

Death is mentioned over 2000 times in the Bible, stating from Genesis, and it mentions Abraham's death.
Yes, Abraham will be resurrected, but will the Israelites God caused to wander in the wilderness, until their death... will they be resurrected?
The Bible speaks of the sin for which their is no forgiveness. This is permanent death. Hebrews 10:26-31

Under the New Testament Covenant, one has to believe in Jesus to gain everlasting life:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

So sins no longer need to be forgiven to gain salvation from the wages of sin:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #32]

The Fall was definitely NOT a part of God's plan. He designed the earth to be lived on and man to live here forever. The only reason we die is because Adam rebelled. AFTER Adam rebelled, God put in motion a plan to have Christ give himself a ransom in exchange for human lives. Christ was not designated to die before the earth was made. It was "from the founding of the world," the world being the society of imperfect violent humans that came into being when Adam disobeyed. (See I John 2:15-17)

If God wanted man to live forever, then He would not have created us capable of dying.

In fact, the Word (God) became flesh as the man Jesus Christ for the purpose of dying:

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

But salvation is a gift of God. We are not saved by a human sacrifice.

But you've heard that before.

You know, the bit about Jesus was a man, all men are appointed their first death, and Jesus died His appointed first death on the cross. Jesus could not avoid His first death, so that is not what saves anyone.

The wages for our sins is the "second death" not our first appointed deaths.

Hi myth.
So did God created the tree of life so that man could live forever?

yes.

You said the wages sin pays is "second death". Why did you add second?

Because that is what the scriptures called the wages of our sins:

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Did millions of people not die from sin, who will be resurrected, and not taste the second death?

Yes, everyone who ever died will be resurrected. Deceased believers will be resurrected to everlasting spiritual life, and resurrected nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans and can avoid the second death by accepting Jesus as their Savior then.

Do you believe the tree had power of some sort, to make the man immortal?

The only way any man can become immortal is to be born of the Spirit as a spirit. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit, and spirits are immortal.

The scripture at Revelation 21:8 does not say the wages of sin is the second death.

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

The Bible states that every deceased human will be resurrected back to life from their first appointed death. That being the case, then our appointed first "death" is not truly death as it is not permanent. Thus, the Bible often describes one's first death as sleep, slumber, or rest. Rest In Peace is common on headstones.

The scripture at Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death. Not the second death.

The second death is the only true permanent death.

Since persons who died - paid their wages - of sin, will be resurrected, and not taste the second death, do you see how this differs from what you added to Romans 6:23?

One's appointed first "death" is not permanent as all of the dead will be resurrected to life again. It does not fit the definition of death, and it does not pay the wages of any sin.

The only true death is the second death from which there is no recovery or resurrection. Thus, the second death pays the wages for our sins.

How can you say that the first death does not absolve men of their sin? ("For he who has died has been acquitted from his sin." Romans 6:7) That is true, as long as a person didn't willfully commit sins, knowing that he was giving God the finger, for which there is no ransom. There is a resurrection from the first death. The second death is the death from which there is no resurrection.

[myth-one.com]

How can you say that the first death does not absolve men of their sin? ("For he who has died has been acquitted from his sin." Romans 6:7) That is true, as long as a person didn't willfully commit sins, knowing that he was giving God the finger, for which there is no ransom. There is a resurrection from the first death. The second death is the death from which there is no resurrection.

The first death is appointed unto all humans -- whether they sin or not:

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

Being absolved from sin is no longer a requirement for salvation anyway:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)

Neither willfully committed sins nor the unpardonable sin will prevent any human from gaining salvation!

You'll just have to live with that.

[John17_3]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #42]

Under the New Testament Covenant, one has to believe in Jesus to gain everlasting life:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

What about Adam?

So sins no longer need to be forgiven to gain salvation from the wages of sin:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)

I'm not sure what you are saying.
If you are saying Christ's death covers our sins and allows us to have forgiveness. That is what the scriptures say. 1 John 2:1, 2
However, we do not use our freedom as a cover-up for evil. 1 Peter 2:16

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #42]

Under the New Testament Covenant, one has to believe in Jesus to gain everlasting life:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

What about Adam?

If Adam accepts Jesus as his Savior, then Adam will gain everlasting life. If not, then Adam will suffer his second and everlasting death in the lake of fire.

So sins no longer need to be forgiven to gain salvation from the wages of sin:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)

I'm not sure what you are saying.

Christ's death does not save anyone. He was a man, and all men die their appointed first death.

Jesus is different from all other men in that He lived a sinless life as a Jew under the Old Testament Covenant between God and the nation of Israel. Under that Covenant, the wages of sin was the second death. But Jesus never sinned, thus He is the only human to become an heir to everlasting life under that covenant.

Notice that speaking of Jesus, Timothy wrote:

Who only hath immortality, . . . 1 Timothy 6:16

God then allows Jesus to offer His inheritance of everlasting life as a free gift to those who believe in Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant.

Thus everlasting life becomes a gift of God through Jesus Christ:


For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

It's really simple.

[Capbook]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #46]

If Adam accepts Jesus as his Savior, then Adam will gain everlasting life. If not, then Adam will suffer his second and everlasting death in the lake of fire.

The first Adam died before Jesus was born.
May I know how could Adam accepts Jesus as his Savior?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #46]

If Adam accepts Jesus as his Savior, then Adam will gain everlasting life. If not, then Adam will suffer his second and everlasting death in the lake of fire.

The first Adam died before Jesus was born.
May I know how could Adam accepts Jesus as his Savior?

The names of believers are written into the Book of Life. All deceased whose names are written in the Book of Life will be resurrected to everlasting spiritual life at the Second Coming. At that same moment, believers who are alive on the earth will be born again of the Spirit as spirits and meet them in the air. All will then spend the 1000-year Millennium with Jesus.

Then, all deceased nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans after the 1,000 years in the second resurrection.

<======================================>

Resurrected nonbelievers along with those nonbelievers living on the earth at the time of the second resurrection will then face judgment. Following their judgment, those whose names are written in the Book of Life gain everlasting life. Those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second and everlasting second death.

But remember that the Book of Life was cleared of names following the first resurrection. That is, all deceased and living Christians were granted everlasting life at the Second Coming.

Checking the Book of Life again after judgment of nonbelievers implies that those being judged have an opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior and have their names written in the Book of Life during their judgment! This is when large numbers of people will have an opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior.

That is when Adam and millions of others could accept Jesus.

That is why the Book of Life is checked again after the judgment.

[John17_3]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #46]

If Adam accepts Jesus as his Savior, then Adam will gain everlasting life. If not, then Adam will suffer his second and everlasting death in the lake of fire.

The first Adam died before Jesus was born.
May I know how could Adam accepts Jesus as his Savior?

The names of believers are written into the Book of Life.

Adam was not a believer. Adam rebelled and joined Satan, as the first human rebel.
How di Adam's name find its way into the book of life?

All deceased whose names are written in the Book of Life will be resurrected to everlasting spiritual life at the Second Coming.

Can you please provide the scripture you used to say this.

At that same moment, believers who are alive on the earth will be born again of the Spirit as spirits and meet them in the air. All will then spend the 1000-year Millennium with Jesus.

Can you please provide the scripture you used to say this.

Then, all deceased nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans after the 1,000 years in the second resurrection.

Can you please provide the scripture you used to say this.

Resurrected nonbelievers along with those nonbelievers living on the earth at the time of the second resurrection will then face judgment. Following their judgment, those whose names are written in the Book of Life gain everlasting life. Those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second and everlasting second death.

Can you please explain how they will face judgment, and what scripture you used for this.

But remember that the Book of Life was cleared of names following the first resurrection. That is, all deceased and living Christians were granted everlasting life at the Second Coming.

Can you please provide the scripture you used to say this.

Checking the Book of Life again after judgment of nonbelievers implies that those being judged have an opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior and have their names written in the Book of Life during their judgment! This is when large numbers of people will have an opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior.

That is when Adam and millions of others could accept Jesus.

That is why the Book of Life is checked again after the judgment.

Thank you for your thorough explanation.
I just need those scriptures to see what support you give for it, and so that I can follow you, step by step. Thanks.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #46]

If Adam accepts Jesus as his Savior, then Adam will gain everlasting life. If not, then Adam will suffer his second and everlasting death in the lake of fire.

The first Adam died before Jesus was born.
May I know how could Adam accepts Jesus as his Savior?

The names of believers are written into the Book of Life.

Adam rebelled and joined Satan, as the first human rebel.

Can you please provide the scripture you used to support this claim.

The Bible indicates that Eve rebelled before Adam:

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (Genesis 3:6)

Eve was considered a human, right?