The Origin and Destiny of man

[Revelations won]

True religion should clearly answer the question of the origin and destiny of man.

1. Where did we come from?

2 Why are we here?

3. What is the eternal destiny of man?

May we hear your clear knowledge of the above questions.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #9]

Genesis Chapter 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Did God create the earth without form, void, and dark as Genesis 1:2 describes it?

Yes. That's exactly what we read, without inserting - adding, as the Bible says not to do, or taking away, as the Bible says not to do.
God created the heavens and the earth. -> And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. -> And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Wrong! You're taking away!

You're ignoring numerous verses which state that every item created by God was created as "good!"

Is without form, void, and dark good?

God created the heaven and the earth in Genesis 1:1.

Did He originally create the earth as "good" or as empty, void and dark in Genesis 1:1??

[John17_3]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #11]

Wrong! You're taking away!

You're ignoring numerous verses which state that every item created by God was created as "good!"

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
No. Did I miss something? Do you have a Bible that has Genesis 1:1a, that says, "And it was good"?
Please point out the verse that says, and the heavens and the earth were good".

Genesis 1:2 - Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
I don't see a Genesis 1:2a that says the waters were good.
Can you point out where in scripture you read that?

Genesis 1:3 - And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Unless the texts are invisible to the human eye, I did not see what you are claiming.
Even so, if the text is invisible, you won't see it either, so I think you must have inserted, or added what is not there.
No one took away those things, as there were never written.

Is without form, void, and dark good?

God created the heaven and the earth in Genesis 1:1.

Did He originally create the earth as "good" or as empty, void and dark in Genesis 1:1??

I answered this. You did read it, didn't you?
Please read post #10.

[theophile]

True religion should clearly answer the question of the origin and destiny of man.

Why would you say this? I'm not saying you're wrong, but it raises interesting questions. Like, that without religion there is no such answer.

1. Where did we come from?

2 Why are we here?

3. What is the eternal destiny of man?

May we hear your clear knowledge of the above questions.

Biblically speaking, I'd say that we come from the stuff of the earth. From the primordial elements of a chaotic deep that co-existed with God from the beginning.

Why are we here? Given our materialist origins there's no real answer to this question. No absolute meaning. Biblically speaking, I'd say we are presented with a reason and purpose to fill this gap. To be what God calls us to be.

What is this 'eternal destiny' of man? One that is freely accepted. To join God in the pursuit of life of every kind.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #11]

Did I miss something? Do you have a Bible that has Genesis 1:1a, that says, "And it was good"?
Please point out the verse that says, and the heavens and the earth were good".

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Genesis 1:31)

Every thing would include the heavens and the earth.

Genesis 1:2 - Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
I don't see a Genesis 1:2a that says the waters were good.
Can you point out where in scripture you read that?

sure:

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Genesis 1:31)

Every thing would include water.

Genesis 1:3 - And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Unless the texts are invisible to the human eye, I did not see what you are claiming.
Even so, if the text is invisible, you won't see it either, so I think you must have inserted, or added what is not there.
No one took away those things, as there were never written.

No, Genesis 1:3 actually states that "And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light."

[John17_3]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #14]

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Genesis 1:31)

Every thing would include the heavens and the earth.

sure:

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Genesis 1:31)

Every thing would include water.

So, you agree with Post #8, where I stated:
When were things seen to be good by God's estimation, concerning earth?
That was at Genesis 1:31-2:1, wasn't it.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning - the sixth day.
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

Only after on day 6 was everything completed, and God considered everything very good.

At verse 31, it not "kinda looks", it is the case that everything was good. Not at verse 2.
Verse 2 is the initial state. While verse 31, is the completion of everything.

If you do not agree, please read the verse again.
Genesis 1:31 - And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

When God completed his work, on day 6, everything was good. Not on day 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5.
Genesis 2:1 - Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #14]

Genesis 1:31 - And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

When God completed his work, on day 6, everything was good. Not on day 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5.
Genesis 2:1 - Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

Everything completed on day 1 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 2 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 3 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 4 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 5 was seen to be good upon completion.

And Everything completed on day 6 was seen to be good upon completion.

Upon completion of every thing, all of the creations were seen to be very good.

[John17_3]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #16]

Everything completed on day 1 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 2 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 3 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 4 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 5 was seen to be good upon completion.

And Everything completed on day 6 was seen to be good upon completion.

Upon completion of every thing, all of the creations were seen to be very good.

Thank you.
However, this is according to you. Not the Bible.

The Bible's narrative goes like this:
Genesis 1:4, 5
And God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Genesis 1:10
God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of waters He called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:12, 13
The earth produced vegetation: seed-bearing plants according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

...etc.

Genesis 1:31
And God looked upon all that He had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning - the sixth day.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #16]

Everything completed on day 1 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 2 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 3 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 4 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 5 was seen to be good upon completion.

And Everything completed on day 6 was seen to be good upon completion.

Upon completion of every thing, all of the creations were seen to be very good.

Thank you.
However, this is according to you. Not the Bible.

The Bible's narrative goes like this:
Genesis 1:4, 5
And God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Genesis 1:10
God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of waters He called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:12, 13
The earth produced vegetation: seed-bearing plants according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

...etc.

Genesis 1:31
And God looked upon all that He had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning - the sixth day.

The original creation of the good heaven and the good earth is described in Genesis 1:1:

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Genesis 1:1)

This completes the creation of the original good earth. It was created as "good" like everything which God created.

That being the case, why does the next verse describe the earth as "without form, and void; and dark?"

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (Genesis 1:2)

The earth was created as very good and has become formless, void, and dark as described in verse 2. And God has returned to replenish the earth to it's original very good condition.

The first step in restoring the earth to its original condition is to is to turn the lights back on:

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. (Genesis 1:3)

Verse three begins a detailed description of the re-creation of a now decimated earth which was originally created as very good in verse 1; but has since become formless, void, and dark as described in verse 2!

<===============================>

Here's how the book of Psalm puts it:

Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they (mankind) are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. (Psalm 104:30)

[Purple Knight]

You need to have at least 6 babies per female per lifetime on average to overcome the natural degradation accumulated by detrimental mutations. Once something becomes an elephant or a human it will do okay for a while, but ultimately it is doomed.

[theophile]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #16]

Everything completed on day 1 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 2 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 3 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 4 was seen to be good upon completion.

Everything completed on day 5 was seen to be good upon completion.

And Everything completed on day 6 was seen to be good upon completion.

Upon completion of every thing, all of the creations were seen to be very good.

Thank you.
However, this is according to you. Not the Bible.

The Bible's narrative goes like this:
Genesis 1:4, 5
And God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Genesis 1:10
God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of waters He called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:12, 13
The earth produced vegetation: seed-bearing plants according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

...etc.

Genesis 1:31
And God looked upon all that He had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning - the sixth day.

The original creation of the good heaven and the good earth is described in Genesis 1:1:

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Genesis 1:1)

This completes the creation of the original good earth. It was created as "good" like everything which God created.

That being the case, why does the next verse describe the earth as "without form, and void; and dark?"

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (Genesis 1:2)

The earth was created as very good and has become formless, void, and dark as described in verse 2. And God has returned to replenish the earth to it's original very good condition.

The first step in restoring the earth to its original condition is to is to turn the lights back on:

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. (Genesis 1:3)

Verse three begins a detailed description of the re-creation of a now decimated earth which was originally created as very good in verse 1; but has since become formless, void, and dark as described in verse 2!

To interject, I'm not saying John17_3 is right, but you're definitely adding to the text what isn't there when you say there is a transition from Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 1:2 from a full, good earth, to an earth that is empty and void. God never says anything is good in Genesis 1:1. God doesn't speak at all there. Nor is there any mention in the verse that the earth is full of life, so if this is in fact a creative moment, it would arguably just be the creation of the base structure of the heavens and the earth, and as such flow cleanly to Genesis 1:2 that describes said structure as void. (There is no need or justification to assume the creation and devastation of all life between the two verses, and that Genesis 1 is a restoration project as you suggest...)

Rather than taking this view, though, I would suggest that Genesis 1:1 is in fact just a narrative setup that summarizes Genesis 1 as a whole. It orients the audience to what they are about to read / hear. The actual act of creation doesn't get underway until Genesis 1:3 when God first speaks. (Put otherwise, Genesis 1:2+ unpacks and describes the summary of Genesis 1:1 and shows how God created the heavens and the earth from start to finish. Starting with 'the deep', i.e., an uncreated abyss of water and unseparated earth that is void of life.)

Take for instance the heavens. Genesis 1:1 says God created these in the beginning, but the heavens aren't actually created until Genesis 1:6, when the firmament is established to separate the waters. Prior to this, again, it was nothing but a mucky deep, albeit now lit up per God's first creative act.

Another point in favor for such an interpretation: when / where are the waters / deep created in Genesis 1? Spoiler alert: they aren't.