Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

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Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Jude 1:9 Even the archangel Michael, when he argued with the Devil and fought over the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him. Instead, he said, “May the Lord rebuke you!”
Matthew 4
International Standard Version
Jesus is Tempted by Satan
4 After this, Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil. 2 After fasting for 40 days and 40 nights, he finally became hungry.

3 Then the tempter came. “Since[a] you are the Son of God,” he said, “tell these stones to become loaves of bread.”

4 But he answered, “It is written,

‘One must not live on bread alone,
but on every word coming
out of the mouth of God.’”

5 Then the Devil took him to the Holy City and had him stand on the highest point of the Temple. 6 He told Jesus, “Since you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, because it is written,

‘God will put his angels in charge of you,’

and,

‘With their hands they will hold you up,
so that you will never hit your foot against a rock.’”

7 Jesus responded to him, “It is also written, ‘You must not tempt the Lord your God.’”

8 Once more the Devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, along with their splendor. 9 He told Jesus, “I will give you all these things if you will bow down and worship me!”

10 Then Jesus told him, “Go away, Satan! Because it is written,

‘You must worship the Lord your God
and serve only him.’”

11 So the Devil left him, and angels came and began ministering to him.

Michael does not rebuke Satan and says May the Lord rebuke you.
Jesus does rebuke Satan.

Therefore:
Jesus is not Michael.
Jesus is the Lord.
Jesus is God.

Does this prove Jesus is not Michael?
Does this prove Jesus is God?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #31

Post by Capbook »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:52 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:48 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:19 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 5:16 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am the word "and" is not there, the translation has also removed the words that appear before "equal with God" ...
Image SOURCE King James Version

It has entirely distorted the meaning by removing certain words and thoughts that appeared in the original text and replacing it with the translators idea.
That is a paraphrase translation. ...

Yes, and evidently not a very good one.
But the message is clear.
I prefer to refer to the orginal Greek as it makes things clearer than a paraphrase.
Yes, original Greek interpreted by man, let the verse interpreted by another verse like; Like John 17:3, 1John5:20, Heb1:8,9, Psa 45:6.

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #32

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:18 am Yes, original Greek ...
You can see the original greek here

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am the word "and" is not there, the translation has also removed the words that appear before "equal with God" ...
Image SOURCE King James Version
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #33

Post by Capbook »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:20 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:18 am Yes, original Greek ...
You can see the original greek here

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am the word "and" is not there, the translation has also removed the words that appear before "equal with God" ...
Image SOURCE King James Version
As I've said I quote a paraphrase translation that gives the clear message.

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #34

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:31 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:20 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:18 am Yes, original Greek ...
You can see the original greek here

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am the word "and" is not there, the translation has also removed the words that appear before "equal with God" ...
Image SOURCE King James Version
As I've said I quote a paraphrase translation that gives the clear message.
And as I said, not all paraphrases are of a good standard and when there is a question its best to refer to the orginal Greek as I have done above.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #35

Post by Capbook »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:32 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:31 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:20 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:18 am Yes, original Greek ...
You can see the original greek here

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am the word "and" is not there, the translation has also removed the words that appear before "equal with God" ...
Image SOURCE King James Version
As I've said I quote a paraphrase translation that gives the clear message.
And as I said, not all paraphrases are of a good standard and when there is a question its best to refer to the orginal Greek as I have done above.
Yes, but we will argue then to the word "robbery" that's why I quote paraphrase translation to render a clearer message.

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #36

Post by JehovahsWitness »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am the word "and" is not there, the translation has also removed the words that appear before "equal with God" ...
Image SOURCE King James Version
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:37 am Yes, but we will argue then to the word "robbery" that's why I quote paraphrase translation to render a clearer message.

It is better to get a correct understanding of the original Greek used in the inspired word than to cut it out of a translation entirely.
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #37

Post by Capbook »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:39 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2024 2:54 am the word "and" is not there, the translation has also removed the words that appear before "equal with God" ...
Image SOURCE King James Version
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:37 am Yes, but we will argue then to the word "robbery" that's why I quote paraphrase translation to render a clearer message.
It is better to get a correct understanding of the original Greek used in the inspired word than to cut it out of a translation entirely.
One of the definition of robbery in lexicon is retained.
Thus, if applied, retained to be equal with God.

NT:725
2. a thing seized or to be seized, booty:
<a(rpagmo/n
<END to deem anything a prlze — a thing to be seized upon or to be held fast, retained, Phil 2:6
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon)

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #38

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:49 am NT:725
2. a thing seized or to be seized, booty:
<a(rpagmo/n
<END to deem anything a prlze — a thing to be seized upon or to be held fast, retained, Phil 2:6
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon)
Emphasis MINE


So since Paul speaks of this in the negative (something Jesus did NOT do) Paul is saying he (Jesus) did not even consider robbing or grabbing equality with God.


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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #39

Post by Capbook »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:52 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:49 am NT:725
2. a thing seized or to be seized, booty:
<a(rpagmo/n
<END to deem anything a prlze — a thing to be seized upon or to be held fast, retained, Phil 2:6
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon)
Emphasis MINE


So since Paul speaks of this in the negative (something Jesus did NOT do) Paul is saying he (Jesus) did not even consider robbing or grabbing equality with God.


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QUESTION: Can Philippians 2:5, 6 be used to support the trinity?
viewtopic.php?p=872798#p872798

How should Harpagmos rightly be translated? [tigger]
viewtopic.php?p=1041994#p1041994
To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

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Can "retained" also be used as definition of robbery or not?
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And what "form of God" mean then? (Phil 2:6)

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Re: Jesus is God - Jude - Michael does not rebuke Satan

Post #40

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Capbook wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:27 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:52 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2024 7:49 am NT:725
2. a thing seized or to be seized, booty:
<a(rpagmo/n
<END to deem anything a prlze — a thing to be seized upon or to be held fast, retained, Phil 2:6
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon)
Emphasis MINE


So since Paul speaks of this in the negative (something Jesus did NOT do) Paul is saying he (Jesus) did not even consider robbing or grabbing equality with God.


RELATED POSTS
QUESTION: Can Philippians 2:5, 6 be used to support the trinity?
viewtopic.php?p=872798#p872798

How should Harpagmos rightly be translated? [tigger]
viewtopic.php?p=1041994#p1041994
To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

GOD, JESUS and ...THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED
Can "retained" also be used as definition of robbery or not?
Not in the context if the scripture, no.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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