What do JWs know?

[2ndpillar2]

I just had two JWs come to my house. They said that they do not believe in the Trinity, yet they were quoting from a bible whose canon was produced by Athanasius in 367 A.D., the same guy who was the main proponent of the Trinity doctrine at Constantine's Council of Nicaea. They apparently did not know that Athanasius produced the canon they used, and that he proposed doctrine which is opposite of what they believe. Is this a one off, or is lack of historical context part of the JWs normal routine? They gave their quote of the day, Rev 21:4, without context, and didn't know that Rev 22:15 applied to the same Jerusalem, and that those "who practice lying" would not "enter". As soon as I told them, they turned and walked quickly away. The second time in around so many weeks, that JWs came, and quickly walked away when confronted with their inconsistencies.

[MissKate13]

I just had two JWs come to my house. They said that they do not believe in the Trinity, yet they were quoting from a bible whose canon was produced by Athanasius in 367 A.D...

It is interesting that the Bible doesn't support the idea of Trinity, it doesn't even have the word Trinity in it. So, if Athanasius supported the idea of Trinity, when he collected the scriptures, that he didn't make, it is weird why didn't he take anything that would support the idea.

It’s true that the word “trinity” is not found in Scripture, but to say the Bible doesn’t support the idea is untrue. There are far too many Scriptures that say otherwise. You can twist, deny, and try to explain away, but Gods word says what it says, and you cannot change it to make it say what you want it to say.

Jesus identifies himself in Revelation 22:13 as the Alpha and Omega, which is the same way God identified Himself in the Old Testament (Isa 44:6).

John 14:9-11
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

2 CORINTHIANS 3:17 NOW THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT, AND WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS,
THERE IS FREEDOM.

Colossians 2:9
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form

John 10:30
30 I and the Father are one.

The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel (which means "God with us.”
- Matthew 1:23

Philippians 2:5-8
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!

[1213]

It’s true that the word “trinity” is not found in Scripture, but to say the Bible doesn’t support the idea is untrue. There are far too many Scriptures that say otherwise. You can twist, deny, and try to explain away, but Gods word says what it says, and you cannot change it to make it say what you want it to say.

Jesus identifies himself in Revelation 22:13 as the Alpha and Omega, which is the same way God identified Himself in the Old Testament (Isa 44:6).

The reason why I think such interpretation is not true is that Jesus tells there is only one true God who is greater than him. And also Paul tells the same.

How can you believe, who receive glory from one another, and you don't seek the glory that comes from the only God?
John 5:44
This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3
Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascend-ing to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
John 20:17
the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

John 14:9-11
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

2 CORINTHIANS 3:17 NOW THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT, AND WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS,
THERE IS FREEDOM.

Colossians 2:9
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form

Bible tells Jesus is the image of God and also the temple of God. That means to me he is not himself the one and only true God.

… He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation....
Col. 1:14-16
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews therefore said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple! Will you raise it up in three days?” But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me; or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
John 14:10-11

John 10:30
30 I and the Father are one.

The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel (which means "God with us.”
- Matthew 1:23

Also disciples of Jesus are one with the God.

I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
John 17:11
that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
John 17:21

[MissKate13]

It’s true that the word “trinity” is not found in Scripture, but to say the Bible doesn’t support the idea is untrue. There are far too many Scriptures that say otherwise. You can twist, deny, and try to explain away, but Gods word says what it says, and you cannot change it to make it say what you want it to say.

Jesus identifies himself in Revelation 22:13 as the Alpha and Omega, which is the same way God identified Himself in the Old Testament (Isa 44:6).

The reason why I think such interpretation is not true is that Jesus tells there is only one true God who is greater than him. And also Paul tells the same.

How can you believe, who receive glory from one another, and you don't seek the glory that comes from the only God?
John 5:44
This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3
Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascend-ing to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
John 20:17
the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

John 14:9-11
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

2 CORINTHIANS 3:17 NOW THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT, AND WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS,
THERE IS FREEDOM.

Colossians 2:9
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form

Bible tells Jesus is the image of God and also the temple of God. That means to me he is not himself the one and only true God.

… He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation....
Col. 1:14-16
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews therefore said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple! Will you raise it up in three days?” But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me; or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
John 14:10-11

John 10:30
30 I and the Father are one.

The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel (which means "God with us.”
- Matthew 1:23

Also disciples of Jesus are one with the God.

I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
John 17:11
that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
John 17:21

Jesus is not saying I am not God in John 5:44, 17:3 or any other verse you quoted. Keep in mind that Jesus was human and in total submission to His Father while on earth. The Father was the God of Jesus, the man.

We must reconcile Scriptures together, not pit them against one another. All one needs to do is look at the reaction of the Jews when Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.” They believed he was claiming to be God. They tried to kill him because of it.

The Apostle John believed and wrote in the clearest language that the word was God and became flesh. Matthew wrote that the child would be called Immanuel, which means God with us. Isaiah wrote about Jesus saying he would be called mighty God and everlasting Father.

I’ve concluded that people are going to believe what they want to believe, which is not always truth. Imho, the best thing any of us can do is to put our limited minds in God’s hands. Study the Scriptures daily, and pray for better understanding.

Be blessed,
Kate

[1213]

...We must reconcile Scriptures together, not pit them against one another. All one needs to do is look at the reaction of the Jews when Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.” They believed he was claiming to be God. They tried to kill him because of it.

That people made wrong conclusion about the words doesn't mean Jesus was meaning something else than what he says.

The Apostle John believed and wrote in the clearest language that the word was God and became flesh. Matthew wrote that the child would be called Immanuel, which means God with us. Isaiah wrote about Jesus saying he would be called mighty God and everlasting Father.

Bible tells God dwells in Jesus. That is why, if Jesus is there, also God is, because He is in Jesus. That doesn't mean Jesus himself is the God.

I’ve concluded that people are going to believe what they want to believe, which is not always truth. Imho, the best thing any of us can do is to put our limited minds in God’s hands. Study the Scriptures daily, and pray for better understanding.

I agree with that.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to 1213 in post #24]

I’m glad we can agree on something!

Have a very blessed day, 1213!
Kate

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be party'to some "hidden knowledge" , dwe simmly share our understanding of the bible which is freely available for all. Jesus Commossioned his followers to preach the word and that is what JWs do.


JW

[Capbook]

Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be party'to some "hidden knowledge" , dwe simmly share our understanding of the bible which is freely available for all. Jesus Commossioned his followers to preach the word and that is what JWs do.


JW

May I know are there some denomination whom claim to have "hidden knowledge"? Bible is available to all specially to "Sola Scriptura" denominations.

[onewithhim]

Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be party'to some "hidden knowledge" , dwe simmly share our understanding of the bible which is freely available for all. Jesus Commossioned his followers to preach the word and that is what JWs do.


JW

May I know are there some denomination whom claim to have "hidden knowledge"? Bible is available to all specially to "Sola Scriptura" denominations.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to have "hidden knowledge." I don't know of any religions that claim this, though there are probably some that do.

[Capbook]

Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be party'to some "hidden knowledge" , dwe simmly share our understanding of the bible which is freely available for all. Jesus Commossioned his followers to preach the word and that is what JWs do.


JW

May I know are there some denomination whom claim to have "hidden knowledge"? Bible is available to all specially to "Sola Scriptura" denominations.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to have "hidden knowledge." I don't know of any religions that claim this, though there are probably some that do.

May I know what you mean by "hidden knowledge"?

[onewithhim]

Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be party'to some "hidden knowledge" , dwe simmly share our understanding of the bible which is freely available for all. Jesus Commossioned his followers to preach the word and that is what JWs do.


JW

May I know are there some denomination whom claim to have "hidden knowledge"? Bible is available to all specially to "Sola Scriptura" denominations.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to have "hidden knowledge." I don't know of any religions that claim this, though there are probably some that do.

May I know what you mean by "hidden knowledge"?

You are the one that asked ME about "hidden knowledge." Please explain what you meant.