Athanasian Creed - The Man-Made Doctrine

[2timothy316]

For clarity, is the Athanasian Creed found here https://www.crcna.org/welcome/beliefs/c ... sian-creed the accepted belief of the trinity for all trinitarians?
If not what is? Who is reading this creed for the first time? Who considers it to be holy scripture?

The creed ends with "one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully."
If it isn't scripture...How do they have the authority to say such a thing?

[SiNcE_1985]

And my other questions?

My bad.

Sure, you can agree with some parts and not the others.

Remember, it ain't in the Bible, so we shouldn't put it on the same pedestal as we do the divine scriptures.

But still, it is rich in its Biblical truth value..and the creed itself pretty much NAILS the doctrine of the Trinity.

The only problem is, it's preface states that you will perish if you don't believe it..and that is where I disagree.

Why?

Because I don't believe that whether or not one believes in the Trinity will effect his/her belief in the central message of the Gospel.

[2timothy316]

And my other questions?

My bad.

Sure, you can agree with some parts and not the others.

How is the possible? 500 years ago you and I would have likely been killed for even having this conversation. How does an individual get to dictate what they do or don't agree with?

Remember, it ain't in the Bible, so we shouldn't put it on the same pedestal as we do the divine scriptures.

Do you think the trinity creed is a man-made doctrine?

But still, it is rich in its Biblical truth value..and the creed itself pretty much NAILS the doctrine of the Trinity.

The only problem is, it's preface states that you will perish if you don't believe it..and that is where I disagree.

Why?

Because I don't believe that whether or not one believes in the Trinity will effect his/her belief in the central message of the Gospel.

Interesting. This is quite different from what scriptures say. John 3:15 says that one must believe in Jesus to have everlasting live. For a trinitarian, wouldn't believing in Jesus include believing he is God? Shouldn't a person that doesn't believe perish? Explain this contradiction.

[The Tanager]

[The Tanager]

[SiNcE_1985]

Interesting. This is quite different from what scriptures say. John 3:15 says that one must believe in Jesus to have everlasting live.

For a trinitarian, wouldn't believing in Jesus include believing he is God? Shouldn't a person that doesn't believe perish? Explain this contradiction.

Well, thank goodness we don't make a doctrine out of one scripture, unlike Jehovah's Witnesses.

"One must believe in him"...it doesn't say in what capacity must you believe in him..so is up for interpretation.

My genuine assessment of Jesus and the New Testament does not have it screaming out "you must believe Jesus is God" at me.

But it does scream out "you must have faith in Jesus and accept him as Lord and Savior".

And keep in mind, I am Trinitarian to the core, but if I don't see it, I dont see it.

[2timothy316]

Interesting. This is quite different from what scriptures say. John 3:15 says that one must believe in Jesus to have everlasting live.

For a trinitarian, wouldn't believing in Jesus include believing he is God? Shouldn't a person that doesn't believe perish? Explain this contradiction.

Well, thank goodness we don't make a doctrine out of one scripture, unlike Jehovah's Witnesses.

"One must believe in him"...it doesn't say in what capacity must you believe in him..so is up for interpretation.

So, it gives one wiggle room to believe whatever one wants to believe. Convenient. I guess one could interpret that Jesus was a flying purple dinosaur and it would be fine.

My genuine assessment of Jesus and the New Testament does not have it screaming out "you must believe Jesus is God" at me.

But it does scream out "you must have faith in Jesus and accept him as Lord and Savior".

And keep in mind, I am Trinitarian to the core, but if I don't see it, I dont see it.

Don't think I haven't noticed you keep avoiding the 'is the trinity a man-made doctrine' question. This will be the 2nd time you've avoided it.

[JehovahsWitness]

[SiNcE_1985]

So, it gives one wiggle room to believe whatever one wants to believe. Convenient. I guess one could interpret that Jesus was a flying purple dinosaur and it would be fine.

That is what people do anyway...thus all the denominations and sects of Christianity.

Jehovah's Witnesses included.

Don't think I haven't noticed you keep avoiding the 'is the trinity a man-made doctrine' question. This will be the 2nd time you've avoided it.

Avoiding it?

The part that I agree with is Biblical...the part that I don't is man-made or whatever you want to call non-Biblical teachings.

Now, how about that?

[The Tanager]

I dont understand what you are asking me. Sorry.

I'm simply saying to make your case instead of just claiming that Trinitarians don't know the Scriptures correctly. If you are going to argue the Athanasian Creed is non-scriptural, then offer support here or we can just stick to the other thread if the focus on the Athanasian creed doesn't add anything to your case there.

[2timothy316]

So, it gives one wiggle room to believe whatever one wants to believe. Convenient. I guess one could interpret that Jesus was a flying purple dinosaur and it would be fine.

That is what people do anyway...thus all the denominations and sects of Christianity.

Jehovah's Witnesses included.

"That is what people do anyway"...So you're just following others. Typical but thanks for this insight.

Don't think I haven't noticed you keep avoiding the 'is the trinity a man-made doctrine' question. This will be the 2nd time you've avoided it.

Avoiding it?

The part that I agree with is Biblical...the part that I don't is man-made or whatever you want to call non-Biblical teachings.

Now, how about that?

As far as I'm concerned, if part of of the Athanasian creed is man-made then all of its. Because things that are God breathed have nothing false in them at all. Thus the Athanasian creed is not God breathed, not important for salvation and thus not important and can be discarded. Using this information, I'll be able to talk others who are not so sure about the trinity and help them uproot this non-scriptural belief. After all, their salvation doesn't depend on it. This has been very helpful.