Jesus is God - Acts 20:28

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Wootah
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Jesus is God - Acts 20:28

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Post by Wootah »

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ESV

28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
So we are to pay careful attention and care for the church of God, which He obtained with his own blood.

Isn't it clear that God obtained the church with his own blood?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Jesus is God - Acts 20:28

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Post by 1213 »

Wootah wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 3:14 am
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ESV

28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
So we are to pay careful attention and care for the church of God, which He obtained with his own blood.

Isn't it clear that God obtained the church with his own blood?
Wouldn't God's church be His, without obtaining it?

I think that does not mean Jesus is God.
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Re: Jesus is God - Acts 20:28

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Post by 2timothy316 »

"So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he made his own through the blood of his Son."

Good News Translation

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=GNT

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Re: Jesus is God - Acts 20:28

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Post by 2timothy316 »

1213 wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:48 am
Wootah wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 3:14 am
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ESV

28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
So we are to pay careful attention and care for the church of God, which He obtained with his own blood.

Isn't it clear that God obtained the church with his own blood?
Wouldn't God's church be His, without obtaining it?

I think that does not mean Jesus is God.
Legally, mankind's future belonged to sin and eventual death before Jesus' sacrifice because of Adam and Eve handing over mankind to sin. Jesus' perfect life sacrifice pays off the perfect life that Adam lost, legally mankind's future now belongs to Almighty God once more.

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Re: Jesus is God - Acts 20:28

Post #5

Post by Wootah »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:46 pm "So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he made his own through the blood of his Son."

Good News Translation

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=GNT
Can you show me that in the Greek?

I am not an expert or have access to originals but this website seems to suggest your translation is wrong because your translation has 'of his Son' but it is not there in the Greek.

Without more information I would suggest your translation is incorrect and possibly adding eisegesis in order to avoid the plain meaning: that God made the church with His own blood.

https://biblehub.com/acts/20-28.htm#lexicon
Greek
Keep watch over
????????? (Prosechete)
Verb - Present Imperative Active - 2nd Person Plural
Strong's 4337: From pros and echo; to hold the mind towards, i.e. Pay attention to, be cautious about, apply oneself to, adhere to.

yourselves
??????? (heautois)
Reflexive Pronoun - Dative Masculine 3rd Person Plural
Strong's 1438: Himself, herself, itself.

and
??? (kai)
Conjunction
Strong's 2532: And, even, also, namely.

the
?? (t?)
Article - Dative Neuter Singular
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

entire
????? (panti)
Adjective - Dative Neuter Singular
Strong's 3956: All, the whole, every kind of. Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole.

flock
??????? (poimni?)
Noun - Dative Neuter Singular
Strong's 4168: A little flock. Neuter of a presumed derivative of poimne; a flock, i.e. group.

of
?? (en)
Preposition
Strong's 1722: In, on, among. A primary preposition denoting position, and instrumentality, i.e. A relation of rest; 'in, ' at, on, by, etc.

which
? (h?)
Personal / Relative Pronoun - Dative Neuter Singular
Strong's 3739: Who, which, what, that.

the
?? (to)
Article - Nominative Neuter Singular
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

Holy
????? (Hagion)
Adjective - Nominative Neuter Singular
Strong's 40: Set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred. From hagos; sacred.

Spirit
?????? (Pneuma)
Noun - Nominative Neuter Singular
Strong's 4151: Wind, breath, spirit.

has made
????? (etheto)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Middle - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 5087: To put, place, lay, set, fix, establish. A prolonged form of a primary theo to place.

you
???? (hymas)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Accusative 2nd Person Plural
Strong's 4771: You. The person pronoun of the second person singular; thou.

overseers.
?????????? (episkopous)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Plural
Strong's 1985: From epi and skopos; a superintendent, i.e. Christian officer in genitive case charge of a church.

Be shepherds
?????????? (poimainein)
Verb - Present Infinitive Active
Strong's 4165: To shepherd, tend, herd; hence: I rule, govern. From poimen; to tend as a shepherd of.

of the
??? (t?n)
Article - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

church
????????? (ekkl?sian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 1577: From a compound of ek and a derivative of kaleo; a calling out, i.e. a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation.

of God,
???? (Theou)
Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular
Strong's 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

which
?? (h?n)
Personal / Relative Pronoun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 3739: Who, which, what, that.

He purchased
????????????? (periepoi?sato)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Middle - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 4046: To acquire, earn, purchase, make my own, preserve alive.

with
??? (dia)
Preposition
Strong's 1223: A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through.

[His]
??? (tou)
Article - Genitive Neuter Singular
Strong's 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

own
????? (idiou)
Adjective - Genitive Neuter Singular
Strong's 2398: Pertaining to self, i.e. One's own; by implication, private or separate.

blood.
??????? (haimatos)
Noun - Genitive Neuter Singular
Strong's 129: Blood, literally, figuratively or specially; by implication, bloodshed, also kindred.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Jesus is God - Acts 20:28

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Post by 2timothy316 »


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Re: Jesus is God - Acts 20:28

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Post by Difflugia »

Wootah wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:28 pmCan you show me that in the Greek?

I am not an expert or have access to originals but this website seems to suggest your translation is wrong because your translation has 'of his Son' but it is not there in the Greek.

Without more information I would suggest your translation is incorrect and possibly adding eisegesis in order to avoid the plain meaning: that God made the church with His own blood.
That's exactly what's going on. The phrase in Greek is ??? ??? ??????? ??? ?????, which literally means "with the blood of [his] own." The word order might more commonly have been ??? ??? ????? ??????? ("with [his] own blood"), but the way it's written isn't wrong or anything.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Jesus is God - Acts 20:28

Post #8

Post by onewithhim »

Difflugia wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 9:57 am
Wootah wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:28 pmCan you show me that in the Greek?

I am not an expert or have access to originals but this website seems to suggest your translation is wrong because your translation has 'of his Son' but it is not there in the Greek.

Without more information I would suggest your translation is incorrect and possibly adding eisegesis in order to avoid the plain meaning: that God made the church with His own blood.
That's exactly what's going on. The phrase in Greek is ??? ??? ??????? ??? ?????, which literally means "with the blood of [his] own." The word order might more commonly have been ??? ??? ????? ??????? ("with [his] own blood"), but the way it's written isn't wrong or anything.
So do we agree now that the verse says "with the blood of his own"? That makes sense when considering hundreds of other scriptures. His own Son shed his blood.

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Re: Jesus is God - Acts 20:28

Post #9

Post by Wootah »

Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Jesus is God - Acts 20:28

Post #10

Post by Difflugia »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:30 pmSo do we agree now that the verse says "with the blood of his own"?
Yes. That's a common possessive/genitive construction in classical Greek.
onewithhim wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:30 pmThat makes sense when considering hundreds of other scriptures.
Again, yes. "The x of the y" is a pretty common possessive construction and it appears in hundreds of other scriptures.
onewithhim wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:30 pmHis own Son shed his blood.
No. "Son" is neither present in nor implied by the text. Unless you can find "hundreds of other scriptures" where "son" is added by translators, your argument is a non sequitur.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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