Do Gods Exist? Can You Prove Gods Exist? Do They Even Have To Exist?

[Data]

Definitions

God: (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being; (in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity; an image, idol, animal, or other object worshiped as divine or symbolizing a god; used as a conventional personification of fate; an adored, admired, or influential person; a thing accorded the supreme importance appropriate to a god; the gallery in a theater.

Atheist: a person who disbelieves in the existence of God or gods.

Veneration: great respect; reverence:

Existence: the fact or state of living or having objective reality; continued survival; a way of living; any of a person's supposed current, future, or past lives on this earth; all that exists; a being or entity.

In essence a god is anything or anyone who is venerated. A mortal man, an object, a fictional or mythological character, real or imagined, a concept like luck. Good or bad. To exist as a god could involve any of a number of specific applications. To exist literally, metaphorically, figuratively, as a fictional, metaphysical or mythological being, object or concept. In what specific sense any alleged god may exist may depend upon such context.

Questions for debate: Do gods exist? Can you prove they exist and do they even have to exist?

[boatsnguitars]

He is clearly delusional. Very well known Creationist who has struggled with mental health - publicly. Yet, he speaks for so many Theists, and I dare say, is the spirit animal of most Christians here.

I don't know how it works here, usually that sort of comment is acceptable, and that's what I'm used to and I approve of it. But here it isn't supposed to be. I very rarely report that sort of thing because it's just human nature, but you're already on probation. The other atheists may not report you but some other theist or a mod could see it. If you want PM me your insults and personal BS, don't get banned for it. Okay? I know it's hard - HEY! - I have the same feelings, but I'm trying to put those aside.

I was talking about the guy in the video, VenomFangX. I like you, and I wouldn't know you well enough to know if you struggle with your mental health.

[Data]

I was talking about the guy in the video. I like you, and I wouldn't know you well enough to know if you struggle with your mental health.

Oh. Alright, then. Carry on without further assistance from me.

You, uh . . . you really like me?! That's something I'm not accustomed to. I'm not sure how to process that. Not sure I like it. Maybe we'll give it some time, I'm sure you'll come to dislike me soon enough.

[Data]

In order to disprove a claim, we first need to know 1) exactly what the claim is, and also 2) have evidence for the claim.

In this case, seems Data is using the following rationale:

1) A supernatural creator exists.
2) How do we know this? Well, 'Scientists can't explain this/that." But is absence of evidence, evidence of absence?

Claim? Look, I don't care about science and I don't care about claims. It's just a ruse. As I've said many times, I couldn't possibly be interested any less in scientific claims because I'm not a scientist and I'm not discussing science. Nothing against it, I think it's great, but it is far from infallible truth. If science said tomorrow that they can prove the existence of God I wouldn't give it a thought. It would mean virtually nothing to me.

[TRANSPONDER]

We all love you, Data especially as you are such a lively and unusual apologist. I can't remember the last one who posted so heavily argumentative posts, appeared to shift to a different position and ended up by dismissing everything.

Theist (if that's what they were) apologetics generally end up nowhere, but rarely have I seen one hit the floor with such a bone -shaking thump.

[Data]

Other definitions of gods are irrelevant here. Because religions only deal in the kind of invisible beings floating about influencing life and our existence. Other definitions simply do not matter unless you give some reasons why they are relevant.

Jesus, the founder of Christianity, was a mortal man. Not God. If you knew what a god was you would know that.

[TRANSPONDER]

Other definitions of gods are irrelevant here. Because religions only deal in the kind of invisible beings floating about influencing life and our existence. Other definitions simply do not matter unless you give some reasons why they are relevant.

Jesus, the founder of Christianity, was a mortal man. Not God. If you knew what a god was you would know that.

I think Jesus was a mortal man, too, though I reckon Paul was actually the inventor and thus the founder of Christianity. But what has that to do with whether gods, in the sense of incorporeal beings with intelligence, powers and a penchant for nocturnal visits to mortal maidens, can and do exist?

[boatsnguitars]

Other definitions of gods are irrelevant here. Because religions only deal in the kind of invisible beings floating about influencing life and our existence. Other definitions simply do not matter unless you give some reasons why they are relevant.

Jesus, the founder of Christianity, was a mortal man. Not God. If you knew what a god was you would know that.

I thought you said anything that is venerated can be a god? Your inconsistency is troubling.

But, you do have a point: if we knew what a god was, we'd all be better off. If only we had a single definition and evidence that that definition applied to something that actually existed. Instead, we get definitions that change with the weather.

[Data]

But, you do have a point: if we knew what a god was, we'd all be better off. If only we had a single definition and evidence that that definition applied to something that actually existed. Instead, we get definitions that change with the weather.

I also, like Jesus, said that the judges in Israel, who were men, were gods. The answer to your question is that I and Jesus, and Paul, and Moses, who was also called God (uppercase G) knew that anything could be a god. The Pharisees and the modern-day Christians - and subsequently the skeptic - doesn't know that. The argument of the skeptic in this debate, on this subject, is always that "we're not talking about that kind of god." There is only one kind of god. Like Penn & Teller said in their HBO series BS a few years back. "Everybody's got a gri-gri." Everyone has a God.

[POI]

No. Not correct. I'm telling you I'm only interested in speaking about "Christianity", not what people view as 'lord/other' outside Christianity.

Then you don't agree with the Oxford dictionary definitions given in the OP? Do Christians have other gods and lords as the Bible passage I quoted earlier from Paul. Many Lords many Gods. Doesn't the Bible list Moses, the judges of Israel, Satan, Molech, Dagon, Baal, Ashtoreth, idols, and rulers as gods and lords as is has commonly done throughout recorded history. One's own belly, again, quoting Paul, for example.

You're only doing exactly what I said you were doing.

The given definition touches on both Christianity and not Christianity. I'm asking a follow up to know exactly where (you) stand about the term 'creation'.

[POI]

I'm able to answer, are you?

But you haven't answered. Again, when you say 'creation', do you mean ex nihilo or ex "materia"?

It's not a trick question. Please do not get frustrated over general blanket terms. I'm simply trying to pare down the conversation so neither of us waste our time or strawman each other. "Materia" can be interchangeable with existence/energy/nature/other.