Jesus is God - grasping equality

[Wootah]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ESV

Philippians 2:5-11
English Standard Version
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,[a] 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

This is a clear: fully God, fully man situation.

However, depending on your Christian persuasion, there are some questions for you:

How can Jesus be in the form of God but not be God?

How can Jesus be in the form of a man but not a man?

If Jesus is not God, are you really going to bow down to a not God creature?

But mainly question 2. If Jesus cannot grab equality with God why would it phrase it as if He could grab it? So could Jesus have grasped equality with God or not?

if Jesus could have grasped equality with God then he is equal to God. Which dialect of Christianity is going to argue that Jesus could have been equal to God but chose not to but He is not God?

Let's put it this way. Suppose there was Thor's hammer and only the ones who are worthy can pick it up. That means everyone that can pick it up, regardless of whether they do pick it up are equally worthy of holding the hammer.

If Jesus could not have grasped equality then why is that statement in the Bible?

It sure seems like the statement is there in the Bible to show that Jesus could have been equal to God but chose not to.

[onewithhim]

The original Greek word used at Phil.2:6 that has been under discussion is harpagmos. How does this word measure up with Christ and his reputation that is seen throughout the Scriptures (humble and obedient to God)?

The Liddell & Scott Greek dictionary defines harpagmos as "robbery" and "rape." Throughout the entry about this word, and derivatives of it, are usages meaning: to be a robber, thievish, greedily, and plunder. The noun "harpage is used for: (1) seizure, robbery, rape; (2) booty, prey; (3) greediness. Similarly, the noun harpagma means booty or prey. Other words formed associated with this root include: "robber," "greedily," "rapacious, thievish," "stolen," "violently," "bird of prey." Every one of these related words has to do with the seizure of something not yet one's own. These words never have the meaning of holding onto something someone already has.

Christ did not even think of grabbing at equality with God (something he didn't already have), but instead humbled himself to self-sacrifice. All the words derived from harpagmos have no business being associated with Christ. He was not that kind of person.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #39]

I don't see your point in connection to the thread. How is it connected?

Philippians 2:5-11

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

How can Jesus be in the form of God but not be God?

Jesus was in the form of a man, not a God. Jesus was the Word made flesh. The being from whom Jesus was made flesh was the Word. So the source from which Jesus was made flesh is what existed in the form of God -- not Jesus.

How can Jesus be in the form of a man but not a man?

Jesus was a man, and He died as a man. There are two type of bodies -- natural and spiritual, and they do not mix. Jesus lived and died as a natural bodied man.

If Jesus is not God, are you really going to bow down to a not God creature?

Only those who seek everlasting life will.

But mainly question 2. If Jesus cannot grab equality with God why would it phrase it as if He could grab it? So could Jesus have grasped equality with God or not?

It doesn't phrase it as such. The man Jesus cannot make Himself a God. What Jesus WAS (past tense) before He was made as a man was the Word. The Word was in the form of God -- not Jesus.

If Jesus could have grasped equality with God then he is equal to God.

No man is God, including Jesus. God is a Spirit!

If Jesus could not have grasped equality then why is that statement in the Bible?

It isn't. As a man, Jesus was never God. The statement you refer to is addressing the past tense -- "when he was in the form of God." That was prior to His being made as flesh.

It sure seems like the statement is there in the Bible to show that Jesus could have been equal to God but chose not to.

Jesus gave the credit to God for everything He accomplished. So there's no way Jesus could become equal to God.

The Word made flesh let go of His glories and privileges in Heaven so that we humans on earth might be saved.

Prior to that event, the Word was strictly a God.

[Wootah]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #42]

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God

So for all of us it would be robbery to try to be equal to God, except for Jesus.

If Jesus being equal to God is not robbery then he owns that status of being God. He is equal to God. There is one God. He is God.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #42]

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God

So for all of us it would be robbery to try to be equal to God, except for Jesus.

It is blasphemy for any man to assume the qualities of God.

In the human world, robbery is taking something which does not belong to you.

Jesus was a man in the human world.

So why do you exclude Him?

[Wootah]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #42]

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God

So for all of us it would be robbery to try to be equal to God, except for Jesus.

It is blasphemy for any man to assume the qualities of God.

In the human world, robbery is taking something which does not belong to you.

Jesus was a man in the human world.

So why do you exclude Him?

That's my point. Anyone considering Jesus as 'not God' stumbles here.

[historia]

Every one of these related words has to do with the seizure of something not yet one's own.

This is demonstrably false, as already shown in post #33 and post #35.

Christ did not even think of grabbing at equality with God (something he didn't already have), but instead humbled himself to self-sacrifice.

From your point of view, is equality with God something Christ could have taken if he didn't already have it?

[AchillesHeel]

[kev.sujith@gmail.com]

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]

Jesus said he and the father are one.
How can a mere human and Father God be one? Jesus must have been wholly God as well as wholly man.
He also claimed to have the ability to forgive sins; only God can do this according to Jewish beliefs. He performed miracles to evidence his divinity.
If Jesus was just a blasphemer and a false prophet, why would God resurrect such a person?
Jesus' resurrection is Yahweh's public vindication of such claims against Jesus.

[1213]

[Wootah]