Jesus is God - Colossians 1:15-16

[Wootah]

The Son is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created,
things visible and invisible,
whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers.
All things have been created through him and for him.
17 He himself existed before anything else did,
and he holds all things together.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ISV

If all things have been created through Jesus then Jesus cannot have been created.

If Jesus is not created he must be God.

Is this proof Jesus is God?

Youtube video:

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 1213 in post #3]

That speaks to Christ as the Mediator Man 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

See Christ is Both God and Man[Mediator] and there are scriptures to prove both.

Hello ,

I would like to address this point but it is very hard for me to understand the logic you are using. Can you explain please how there being one God and One mediator lead you to conclude Jesus is both.



JW

The scripture presents Christ as both God and Man, thats the explanation.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #8]

... Col 1:16 [...]

This denotes His Instrumentality in Creation, His Assistance, Agency in Creation

If I hire a contractor to build my house, the agency of the contractor to execute the building of my House, he actually partook in the creation and building of my house

Correct but participating in the process of creation does not merit the title of CREATOR. If you designed the house then as its architect you would retain the credit for its existence and as such are its "Creator". Indeed a contractor probably doesn't himself lay a single brick, but neither the contractor nor the bricklayer can take credit for being anything less than replaceable instruments through which the person who came up with the original concept and design, made its existence possible.

HOW IS IT THAT JESUS COULD PARTICIPATE IN THE PROCESS OF CREATION WITHOUT MERITING THE TITLE OF CREATOR?

The position of Creator covers making something out of "nothing" (or in human terms , from base materials). So Michelangelo's alone can be considered the creator of the statue of David regardless of who mined the marble, selected the block, transported it to his studio or even chipped the basic shape as per his instructions.

In short, regardless of who the Creator uses, as long as the original concept and design is uniquely his, and as long and others are working under his direction to ensure the realization of his vision, they cannot legitimately lay claim to being anything but assistants.

Jehovah God is the only one biblically given the title of Creatior because he ALONE is responsible for the existence of all things, without him nothing would exist. Jesus, as a "masterworker" acted under the supervision of his Father; we cannot know the exact degree of his contribution but we do know that YHWH (Jehovah) is the source of all energy and the architecte and designer of all that exists.

JW



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COLOSSIANS 1 v15-17 , JESUS ROLE IN CREATION and ... "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED

[onewithhim]

The Son is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created,
things visible and invisible,
whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers.
All things have been created through him and for him.
17 He himself existed before anything else did,
and he holds all things together.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ISV

If all things have been created through Jesus then Jesus cannot have been created.

If Jesus is not created he must be God.

Is this proof Jesus is God?

Youtube video:

Of course not. Sam should pack up his stuff and leave. Talk about misleading people. Jesus could very well have created all things AFTER he himself was created. Couldn't a father teach his son to change the oil in his car? Jehovah taught his Son and then allowed him to create all things.

Verse 15 actually says that Christ was the firstborn of the creation, meaning, of course, that he was the first thing made by God. Then all things were created THROUGH Christ, not FROM Christ. All the power was from the Father, and Jehovah GAVE Jesus the power to create.

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #12]

Participating in the Creation does make Him the Creator, Co Creator with the Father

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #12]

Participating in the Creation does make Him the Creator, Co Creator with the Father

Not even; Jesus is no more given the title "co-creator" in scripture than a midwife is the co-mother in maternity. The bible is clear that YHWH (Jehovah) shared the position of CREATOR with nobody!

ISAIAH 44: 24

"Thus said Jehovah, thy redeemer, And thy framer from the womb: 'I am Jehovah, doing all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, Spreading out the earth -- who is with Me?" - Young's Literal Translation

REVELATION 4:11

“You are worthy, Jehovah* our God, to receive the glory+ and the honor+ and the power,+ because you created all things,+ and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #15]

Again, Jesus is the Creator of the World, so He must be God, only God has that prerogative !

[onewithhim]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #15]

Again, Jesus is the Creator of the World, so He must be God, only God has that prerogative !

Do you dismiss all the places that it says that everything was created through Jesus? He is not the originator of the creation; he received his power FROM the Father, God. The power was given to Jesus by the Father, and thus Jesus created all things.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. [He was the first thing created, directly by the Father.] For by him all things were created....All things have been created through him and for him." (Colossians 1:15,16, NASB) Not FROM him, but THROUGH him. There is a difference, as we can see form I Corinthians 8:6:

"For us there is but one God, the Father, FROM whom are all things and we exist for Him: and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist THROUGH him." (NASB)

Clearly, the Father alone is God, and He gave the power to create to Jesus who is Lord but not God. The Father alone is God (John 17:3).

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #17]

As stated, Jesus Christ is Creator, you have been shown scripture.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #17]

As stated, Jesus Christ is Creator, you have been shown scripture.

You have not shown any scripture where Jesus is refered to as THE CREATOR. This is because not a SINGLE scripture in the bible where Jesus by name is specifically refered to as such. The bible correctly speaks of Jesus as being instrumental in the creation process but YHWH Jehovah ALONE is credited with the title of Creator.

ISAIAH 40:28 - American Standard Version

Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard? The everlasting God, Jehovah, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary; there is no searching of his understanding.

NEHEMIAH 9: 6 - American Standard Version

Thou art Jehovah, even thou alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all things that are thereon, the seas and all that is in them, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee

The word co-creator is nowhere to be found in the bible.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #17]

As stated, Jesus Christ is Creator, you have been shown scripture.

If you would read my post and comment on it we might have a meaningful discussion. I showed you scripture also, and you are just looking at a scant handful of scriptures that don't complete the picture. You have to take into consideration the scriptures that I posted as well. I have read yours. Read post #17 if you would.