I AM HE or I AM?

[MissKate13]

Ego Eimi = I AM
There is no HE. It simply means.I AM.

There are several instances in John where Jesus applies to Himself the same expression that God used at the burning bush: “I AM.” (Exodus 3:14)

(John 8:24). The word “He” is in italics indicating the translators’ insertion. However, in keeping with the theme of John, as well as the immediate context, its insertion is unwarranted and obscures the power of Jesus’ statement. He was, in fact, forthrightly declaring His deity to the hard-hearted Jews by identifying Himself with the same Deity that Moses encountered at the burning bush.

This fact is evident in the context. Three verses later, in John 8:28, Jesus again states I AM. Translators place the “He” in italics.

For a third time, in John 8:58 , Jesus pointedly presses the fact to bring closure to His confrontation: Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

The Jews correctly understood that Jesus was making a direct claim to Deity, evidenced by the fact that they prepared to execute Him for the capital crime of blasphemy.

In John 4:19, Jesus stresses the same point to the Samaritan woman. The translators again add “He” following “I AM” Jesus was connecting Himself the the “I AM” of the burning bush.

The apostles were gripped by fear for their lives, seeing Jesus walking on the water toward their boat. “But He said to them, ‘It is I; do not be afraid’” (John 6:20). The English reader would likely never know that the words “It is I” are a translation of the Greek ego eimi, “I am.” Undoubtedly, Jesus was again calling attention to His divinity—as indicated by “I AM. Be not afraid.

”On the occasion when Jesus washed the feet of His disciples in John 13:19, He said to them, “Now I tell you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe that I am He” (John 13:19). The word He was added. Once again, Jesus was deliberately spotlighting His divinity to His disciples by identifying Himself with the burning bush episode. He intended to emphasize to them that they would realize that He is the great “I AM.”

My personal favorite is John 18:4-5. When the mob came to arrest Jesus, He asks, “Whom are you seeking?’ They answered Him, ‘Jesus of Nazareth.’ Jesus said to them, ‘I am He’” (John 18:4-5). Once again, “He” is in italics.

Notice the reaction. They drew back and fell to the ground. Remember, that these soldiers were not Romans. They were Jewish soldiers sent by the chief priests and Pharisees. They were well aware of the import of the expression “I AM.”

Jesus enlisted the use of “I am” in seven additional instances when He offered descriptions of His divine nature, each prefaced by EGO EIM.
1. “I am the Bread of Life” (6:35).
2. “I am the Light of the world” (8:12).
3. “I am the Door” (10:9).
4. “I am the Good Shepherd” (10:4).
5. “I am the Resurrection and the Life” (11:25).
6. “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life” (14:6).
7. “I am the Vine” (15:5).
In each of these cases, a feature of Jesus’ Person is spotlighted that can only describe deity. No mere human being can rightfully be said to be the Bread of Life, the Light of the world, etc. These glorious affirmations pertain solely to Christ in His divine state.

Insering the word “He” was not only unnecessary, its insertion obscures and softens the force of Jesus’ claim explicitly linking Himself directly to the statement spoken by God to Moses at the burning bush. Indeed, the very heart and core of Christianity is Christ as the divine Son of God. One cannot even be a Christian unless that divinity is orally confessed prior to conversion (Romans 10:9-10).

Unless you believe Jesus when He says EGO EIMI, translated I AM, you will die in your sins.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to tam in post #40]

Hey Tam,
I used BibleHub.com. I entered John 8:58 at the search bar. Then I clicked on lexicon then 1510, which corelates with “eimi.” Then I scrolled down. That is what brought me to Help Word Studies. I did not see Discovery Bible at the bottom of the page until you mentioned it.

I clicked on the link you posted. It brought me to Questions About Jesus and JW’s. I don’t see an answer to my question in the linked post. . Would you please do a cut and paste, and post it here? Thanks.

Christ does exist before Abraham, even before the creation of the world, but that does not mean He is [YHWH].

Actually, Christ did not exist before the creation of the world. The Word did

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #40]

Hey Tam,
I used BibleHub.com. I entered John 8:58 at the search bar. Then I clicked on lexicon then 1510, which corelates with “eimi.” Then I scrolled down. That is what brought me to Help Word Studies. I did not see Discovery Bible at the bottom of the page until you mentioned it.

Yes, I understand that. But you can see now though, that the words ego eimi (or just eimi) do not equal a declaration of being the "I AM" (as in from Exodus). It simply means "I am" or "I exist" (or variations of these). Peter said it of himself. The man born blind said it of himself. Christ said it of himself.

It does not have to be read the way that you and some others are reading it.

Which brings me back to what I have said from the start:

Christ did not teach that He is [YHWH].

He teaches that He is the Son of God.
He teaches that He is the Messiah (the Chosen One of JAH).

Why are His own words on the matter not enough? Why must men add to His words and come up with their own teachings about who He is?


Then to also imply that people are going to 'die in their sins' (no one ever answered me when I asked what you all think that means), unless they believe this particular interpretation?

I mean... I KNOW that is wrong. I don't just think that is wrong; I know it is wrong. I know because I have never believed what you guys are claiming, and yet my Lord called me, saved me, forgave me, and anointed me (with holy spirit).

Christ does exist before Abraham, even before the creation of the world, but that does not mean He is [YHWH].

Actually, Christ did not exist before the creation of the world. The Word did

I don't know why you guys keep making this distinction. This is the same person. Different bodies, but the same person.

The Christ (the Anointed One) or the Messiah (the Chosen One of JAH) is Jaheshua.
Jaheshua is the Word.
Just as He is the Light.
Just as He is the Life.
Just as He is the Holy One of God.

Listen to HIS words on the matter:

And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed. John 17:5

He is speaking of Himself as the One who had glory with His Father before the world existed, is He not?


And isn't Jaheshua both the offspring AND the root of David? Jaheshua, Himself?

“I, [Jesus], have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” Rev 22:16

Or what about His words here:

“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. John 17:24

And it is straightforward here in Hebrews 1:

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Through whom does the author say God made the universe?


And in speaking about Israel after having just left Egypt, Paul said:

They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 1 Corinth 10:3


I just don't understand why you guys are making this distinction between Christ Jaheshua and the Word. Does ANYONE in the NT make this distinction?


Peace again to you.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to tam in post #42]

Im still waiting for you to answer my question. I explained in my last post that I did not see your answer in the link you provided. I asked you to PLEASE copy and paste your answer into this thread.

Below is what you wrote from Post #31

,That does not mean that He was not born (spiritually) before creation.

And here is the question I asked.

What Scripture says that Christ was spiritually born before creation?”

I don't know why you guys keep making this distinction. This is the same person. Different bodies, but the same person.
I just don't understand why you guys are making this distinction between Christ Jaheshua and the Word. Does ANYONE in the NT make this distinction?

I’ll be happy to explain once you've answered my question above.

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #37]

Do you believe the Word is eternal?

I believe what is said in the Bible.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to 1213 in post #44]

Good! I, too, believe what the Bible says. Does the Bible say the Word is eternal?

[tam]

[Replying to MissKate13 in post #43]
Peace to you,

From the other thread:

TAMMY wrote: If someone is born, brought forth from their Father, then do they not have a beginning?

MISSKATE response:
The Word had no beginning, but Jesus, the baby born to Mary did have a beginning. He was the word made flesh. The Word, however, was with God before creation. Can you point to a beginning for the Word, whom which God created the world through?

Yes.

Genesis 1:3.
Compare with:
John 8:12, 3:19, 1:4, 12:35-36.

Proverbs 8 is also speaking of Christ. Christ is Wisdom. Just as He is also the Truth, the Light, the Way, the Life, the Son, the Holy One of God, the Spirit.

Is it not Christ who has trustworthy things to say? Whose lips speak what is true? Whose instruction we are to choose? By whom kings reign (Rev 5:10; 20:6)? Do we not find Him if we seek Him? Does He (and the Father) not love those who love Him? Does He not bestow a rich inheritance upon those who love Him? Do we not find life if we find Him?

“Now then, my children, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
33
Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not disregard it.
34
Blessed are those who listen to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
35
For those who find me find life
and receive favor from the Lord.
36
But those who fail to find me harm themselves;
all who hate me love death.”


My Lord is Wisdom.

You wrote:
Was Christ not the Son of God - including God's firstborn - even before He came to earth as a man, then died and was resurrected?

No, Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God, was to come. He was to be the Word made flesh. The WORD is eternal. The Son of God is NOT. Jesus was declared to be the Son of God at His resurrection (Romans 1:1-4)

A - we are speaking about the same person. My Lord - Christ Jaheshua - is the Word, the Light, the Truth, the Son, the Chosen One of JAH, the Life, the Holy One of God, the Vine, the Tree of Life.


***

Then there is also the verse that speaks of Christ being the firstborn of all creation. Not just the firstborn of the dead. Not just the firstborn of many brothers. The firstborn of all creation.



Will you now respond to my thread?


Peace again to you.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to MissKate13 in post #43]

From the other thread:
TAMMY wrote: If someone is born, brought forth from their Father, then do they not have a beginning?

Please provide the specific verse you are referring to.

MISSKATE response:
The Word had no beginning, but Jesus, the baby born to Mary did have a beginning. He was the word made flesh. The Word, however, was with God before creation. Can you point to a beginning for the Word, whom which God created the world through?
[l

Tammy wrote, Yes. Genesis 1:3. Compare with:
John 8:12, 3:19, 1:4, 12:35-36.

Sorry, don’t mean to be obtuse here, but I am sincerely confused. I’m not understanding. Can you specify your point? I’m not seein the connection. to the question I asked. Can you point to.a beginning for the Word?

Proverbs 8 is also speaking of Christ. Christ is Wisdom. Just as He is also the Truth, the Light, the Way, the Life, the Son, the Holy One of God, the Spirit.

Is it not Christ who has trustworthy things to say? Whose lips speak what is true? Whose instruction we are to choose? By whom kings reign (Rev 5:10; 20:6)? Do we not find Him if we seek Him? Does He (and the Father) not love those who love Him? Does He not bestow a rich inheritance upon those who love Him? Do we not find life if we find Him?

“Now then, my children, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
33
Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not disregard it.
34
Blessed are those who listen to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
35
For those who find me find life
and receive favor from the Lord.
36
But those who fail to find me harm themselves;
all who hate me love death.”


My Lord is Wisdom.

Wisdom is everlasting. YHWH has eternally possessed wisdom. Are you suggesting He hasn’t?

Was Christ not the Son of God - including God's firstborn - even before He came to earth as a man, then died and was resurrected?

No, Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God, was prophesied to come at some time in the future. He would be be the Word made flesh we read about in John 1:14. The WORD is eternal. The Son of God is NOT. Jesus was declared to be the Son of God at His resurrection (Romans 1:1-4)

1Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who [a]was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.[/quote]

Then there is also the verse that speaks of Christ being the firstborn of all creation. Not just the firstborn of the dead. Not just the firstborn of many brothers. The firstborn of all creation.

I assume you are referring to Colossians 1:15.

Firstborn can mean eldest child, but that is not always the case. God referred to David as firstborn in Psalm 89:27, yet David was Jesse’s seventh. . Of David, God said, “Even I will make him firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.” One who is “firstborn” has pre-eminence above all others. David had preeminence over Israel. The nation of Israel was also declared God’s firstborn. God’ firstborn Son, the Messiah, was made ruler over all creation.

Firstborn in Colossians 1:15 points to Jesus’ preeminence. It has nothing to do with Him being created, as JW’s teach (I know you do not believe that.)

PS I had a lot of trouble with this post. Big chunks disappeared. Had to redo. UGH!.





Will you now respond to my thread?


Peace again to you.
[/quote]

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to MissKate13 in post #43]

From the other thread:
TAMMY wrote: If someone is born, brought forth from their Father, then do they not have a beginning?

Please provide the specific verse you are referring to.

I'm just asking a question.

MISSKATE response:
The Word had no beginning, but Jesus, the baby born to Mary did have a beginning. He was the word made flesh. The Word, however, was with God before creation. Can you point to a beginning for the Word, whom which God created the world through?
[l

Tammy wrote, Yes. Genesis 1:3. Compare with:
John 8:12, 3:19, 1:4, 12:35-36.

Sorry, don’t mean to be obtuse here, but I am sincerely confused. I’m not understanding. Can you specify your point? I’m not seein the connection. to the question I asked. Can you point to.a beginning for the Word?

Did you read the verses?

Proverbs 8 is also speaking of Christ. Christ is Wisdom. Just as He is also the Truth, the Light, the Way, the Life, the Son, the Holy One of God, the Spirit.

Is it not Christ who has trustworthy things to say? Whose lips speak what is true? Whose instruction we are to choose? By whom kings reign (Rev 5:10; 20:6)? Do we not find Him if we seek Him? Does He (and the Father) not love those who love Him? Does He not bestow a rich inheritance upon those who love Him? Do we not find life if we find Him?

“Now then, my children, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
33
Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not disregard it.
34
Blessed are those who listen to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
35
For those who find me find life
and receive favor from the Lord.
36
But those who fail to find me harm themselves;
all who hate me love death.”


My Lord is Wisdom.

Wisdom is everlasting. YHWH has eternally possessed wisdom. Are you suggesting He hasn’t?

Wisdom in Proverbs 8 is Christ.
There is wisdom (as in a thing; as in 'so and so is wise').
There is Wisdom (as in a person; as in Christ).

This is what is written of Wisdom at Proverbs 8:

“The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23
I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24
When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25
before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26
before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.




Wisdom at Proverbs 8 was given birth, brought forth, formed (or instead of formed it might be translated as set up; anointed; poured out; installed).

To grasp how Wisdom can be a person as well as an attribute, just think about how the Life can be both a person (Christ) and a thing; or how a Word can be both a person (Christ) and a thing (words we speak or write or think); or how Truth can be both a person (Christ) or a thing (he spoke 'truth').

Was Christ not the Son of God - including God's firstborn - even before He came to earth as a man, then died and was resurrected?

No, Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God, was prophesied to come at some time in the future. He would be be the Word made flesh we read about in John 1:14. The WORD is eternal. The Son of God is NOT. Jesus was declared to be the Son of God at His resurrection (Romans 1:1-4)

MissKate, do you accept that Christ was the Son of God before a declaration at His resurrection?

Then there is also the verse that speaks of Christ being the firstborn of all creation. Not just the firstborn of the dead. Not just the firstborn of many brothers. The firstborn of all creation.

I assume you are referring to Colossians 1:15.

Firstborn can mean eldest child, but that is not always the case. God referred to David as firstborn in Psalm 89:27, yet David was Jesse’s seventh. . Of David, God said, “Even I will make him firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.” One who is “firstborn” has pre-eminence above all others. David had preeminence over Israel. The nation of Israel was also declared God’s firstborn. God’ firstborn Son, the Messiah, was made ruler over all creation.

Firstborn in Colossians 1:15 points to Jesus’ preeminence. It has nothing to do with Him being created, as JW’s teach (I know you do not believe that.)

That is the other possible explanation that people give for that verse. Christ is either the firstborn of all creation and/or the firstborn (preeminent) over all creation.

Regardless of which translation is correct, both statements are true.




Peace again to you.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to MissKate13 in post #47]

Hi Tammy,
I had been struggling to understand your conclusion that comparing Gen 1:3 to John 8:12, 3:19, 1:4 and 12:35-36 shows that the Word had a beginning. So I decided to post all the verses you referenced.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [a]was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

I have two questions:
In the sequence of creation, which came first, the heavens and the earth, the waters OR THE LIGHT? Didn’t God create everything through the Word, including the light?

We are told in John 1:3 “ Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

All things would include the light.

Notice that in each day of creation (days 1-6) the verses say, “AND GOD SAID…”. That is evidence of the Word being in the beginning with God. It was the Word who spoke the world into existence.

On with the comparisons:
John 8:12 Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.

Do you think Jesus is referring to Himself as physical light like that which was created in the beginning, or is He talking about being a spiritual light to mankind, the source of spiritual truth?

John 3:19
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Again, is Jesus referring to Himself as physical light as created in the beginning or of Himself being a spiritual light to all men?

John 1:4
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

Jesus is the source of light., a lamp unto my feet, a light unto my path.

John 12:35-36
35Then Jesus told them, “For a little while longer, the Light will be among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going. 36While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of light.”

Surely you can see that this is not speaking of the light God created through Jesus. Look at the context. This was Jesus’ answer to the attitude of the people. Jesus had proclaimed himself the Light of the world, but they were not willing to walk in it. How very sad to think so many have rejected the light of the world.

Jesus is the embodiment of spiritual light. That’s what these passages from John are about.

Be blessed,
Kate

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to MissKate13 in post #49]

Notice that in each day of creation (days 1-6) the verses say, “AND GOD SAID…”. That is evidence of the Word being in the beginning with God. It was the Word who spoke the world into existence.

Do you think God cannot say something unless it is the Word speaking?


Peace again.