Fear God alone

[Wootah]

One of things all people but I presume Christians actually try to do it is to fear God and not fear other things.

examples from: https://www.openbible.info/topics/fear_of_the_lord

Proverbs 1:7 ESV
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Deuteronomy 10:12 ESV
“And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul,

Psalm 23:4 ESV
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

Now here are some examples saying to not fear man https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Do-Not-Fear-Men

Psalm 118:6 ESV
The Lord is on my side; I will not fear. What can man do to me?

1 Peter 2:17 ESV
Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Proverbs 29:25 ESV / 399 helpful votes
The fear of man lays a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is safe.

I like 1 Peter 2 because it says clearly to honour the emperor but not fear the emperor and we can apply that to all kings and rulers.

The general point is that Christians are only meant to fear God and not fear man (or other things pretending to be God or angels). On angels, angels say fear not quite often. I think this is partly due to the fact they are probably terrifying but also because they do not want us to worship them. Only fear God.

Do you agree?

If you do agree can you explain this verse in the Bible?

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-21.htm
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-21.htm

New International Version
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

New Living Translation
And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

English Standard Version
submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Berean Standard Bible
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Berean Literal Bible
Be submitting yourselves to one another in reverence of Christ:

King James Bible
Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

New King James Version
submitting to one another in the fear of God.

New American Standard Bible
and subject yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ.

NASB 1995
and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.

NASB 1977
and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.

Legacy Standard Bible
and being subject to one another in the fear of Christ.

Amplified Bible
being subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Christian Standard Bible
submitting to one another in the fear of Christ.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
submitting to one another in the fear of Christ.

American Standard Version
subjecting yourselves one to another in the fear of Christ.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Be subject to one another in the love of The Messiah.

Contemporary English Version
Honor Christ and put others first.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Being subject one to another, in the fear of Christ.

English Revised Version
subjecting yourselves one to another in the fear of Christ.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Place yourselves under each other's authority out of respect for Christ.

Good News Translation
Submit yourselves to one another because of your reverence for Christ.

International Standard Version
and you will submit to one another out of reverence for the Messiah.

Literal Standard Version
subjecting yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ.

Majority Standard Bible
Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

I notice that the Greek word is phobos (the word for fear, phobia) so translations using reverence are meaning well but are not accurate. Similar to how the word doulos means slave but gets translated servant a lot .

Question: If we are only meant to fear God, why does the Bible say to fear Christ?

Is this evidence that Christ is God and it is good to fear Christ or .... over to you.

[boatsnguitars]

Why fear an All-Loving God?

If you read the debate you'll find that people are debating what it means to fear. Along with that answer comes the reason.

Why not just answer my question? I already know what it means to fear - I don't need 2,000 years to mull it over and debate it.

[Wootah]

Why fear an All-Loving God?

Maximal expression of love perhaps. God hates sin and hates the devil. Logically nothing can be all loving. For instance, if God loves evil and permits it then God cannot love those that evil destroys.

But Jesus did die for all. In that sense, he is all loving.

[boatsnguitars]

Why fear an All-Loving God?

Maximal expression of love perhaps. God hates sin and hates the devil. Logically nothing can be all loving. For instance, if God loves evil and permits it then God cannot love those that evil destroys.

But Jesus did die for all. In that sense, he is all loving.

Suicide by proxy is loving? Sounds selfish. Not to mention, why did he have to die in the first place? Why did God need the blood?

Plus, as Christians remind me, it's not Jesus's death that was important, but Christians acceptance that it is important to them to accept it as a sacrifice.

Let's face it, the theology is a disaster.

[2timothy316]

Why fear an All-Loving God?

If you read the debate you'll find that people are debating what it means to fear. Along with that answer comes the reason.

Why not just answer my question? I already know what it means to fear - I don't need 2,000 years to mull it over and debate it.

Do you know the difference between fear and Godly fear? Just because you personally have defined something doesn't mean that is the fear the Bible is speaking about. There is minutiae to some words in the Bible. Just as there is different types of love there are different kinds of fear. What people are debating on is what kind of fear is owed to God? Do you have something to add to that?

[JehovahsWitness]

Suicide by proxy is loving?

DID JESUS COMMIT "SUICIDE BY PROXY " ?


Jesus didn't commit suicide by proxy. SUICIDE BY PROXY is when a person that commits capital crimes with the explicit goal of “earning” their executions. There is not record of Jesus committing any crime, much less a capital crime, so there is no evidence he committed suicide by proxy or by any other means.



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[Miles]

Suicide by proxy is loving?

DID JESUS COMMIT "SUICIDE BY PROXY " ?


Jesus didn't commit suicide by proxy. SUICIDE BY PROXY is when a person that commits capital crimes with the explicit goal of “earning” their executions. There is not record of Jesus committing any crime, much less a capital crime, so there is no evidence he committed suicide by proxy or by any other means.

There's extremely little record of Jesus doing anything outside the Bible. And what does the Bible say about Jesus committing a crime? Well, when Jesus was taken before the high priest Caiaphas, Caiaphas said,

Matthew 26:63-65
63 . . . .I adjure thee by the living God that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.”
64 Jesus said unto him, “Thou hast said; nevertheless I say unto you, hereafter shall ye see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”
65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, “He hath spoken blasphemy! What further need have we of witnesses? Behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy!
66 What think ye?” They answered and said, “He is deserving of death!”

So, Jesus' was found guilty of committing the capital crime of blasphemy.

Leviticus 24:16
Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

The fear that we have for God is a deep respect and the will not to do anything that will hurt his feelings. I fear that I might do something against him, therefore I do everything in my power to please him.

[theophile]

One of things all people but I presume Christians actually try to do it is to fear God and not fear other things.
...
Do you agree?

Our fear of God should extend from God to all things. It's in the nature of what it means to fear God. To see what I mean, I think it's helpful to look at the first instance of fear of God in the bible, which is Genesis 3, when Adam and Eve are afraid of God because they are naked. Here we see that fear of God is first and foremost the fear of being naked, and then of God presumably for what God may do to us for the things that we have done or expose.

While many Bibles do indeed say in Genesis 3:10 that Adam was afraid and hid because he was naked

New Living Translation
He replied, “I heard you walking in the garden, so I hid. I was afraid because I was naked.”

Just as an aside, wouldn't it be far more accurate to say Adam was afraid, not of being naked per se, but because of what his nakedness told god?---not that god, being omniscient, wouldn't have known how the whole little drama here was going to play out anyway---From the very outset god knew that through his apple incident he wold be establishing a sellable reason to infect humanity with original sin. And sell it he has: 2.2 billion Christians and 4 million Jews have bought the idea.

Other Bibles say they were afraid because they simply heard god walking in the garden.

Tree of Life Version
Then he said, “Your sound—I heard it in the garden and I was afraid. Because I am naked, I hid myself.” [Deftly setting the two situations apart]

So, the only reason here for hiding was because they were ashamed of being naked, not fearful because they were naked.


Moreover, some Bibles don't even mention being afraid.

The Living Bible
And Adam replied, “I heard you coming and didn’t want you to see me naked. So I hid.”


Other than giving god a pretense to lay Original Sin on everyone, I'd say it's not at all clear what part the their nakedness played in fearing god.

.

You are right that the verse could possibly be read in other ways. I'm not an ancient Hebrew scholar so I won't argue that. No matter what though, nudity is a central concept in Genesis 3, and given it is placed so closely here to the first instance of fear of God I think there is reason to at least consider a connection...

In such instances, I find it helpful to go to other texts, to see how the interpretation holds up. Notable here I think are the trial of Abraham and Job, both of whom explicitly had their fear of God tested.

In Job, nudity makes an appearance again in Job's first declaration in 1:21 after being stripped of his children and wealth: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I will depart. ... blessed be the name of the Lord.”

Being stripped bare is the essence of the test, and in this moment we see Job is quite intent on persisting in his nudity / fear of God...

The same can be seen in Abraham's trial, when God asks for Isaac, presumably to see how willing Abraham will be to expose what he most cherishes on the mountaintop. To expose himself and in doing so demonstrate his fear of God...



Once we enter into this way of thinking, it's hard to deny it methinks.

But don't forget Isaiah 20:1-3 where god tells one of his followers, Isaiah, to take off all his clothes and go naked, which Isaiah did, and for three years no less.

Isaiah 20:1-3
1 Sargon was the king of Assyria. He sent his military commander to fight against Ashdod. The commander went there and captured the city. 2 At that time the Lord spoke through Isaiah son of Amoz. He said, “Go, take the sackcloth off your waist and the sandals off your feet.” So Isaiah obeyed the Lord and went without clothes or sandals.

3 Then the Lord said, “My servant Isaiah has gone without clothes or sandals for three years. This is a sign for Egypt and Ethiopia.

So, how bad can going naked really be?

I suppose I would ask Job that one. Or Jesus. Who would have been nailed to the cross naked, and with the cross itself being the most extreme exposure we see in the bible.

Granted that Jesus' situation was more extreme, but I fail to see why his nakedness would be a more extreme exposure than Isaiah's. I mean, how much more naked can a person get than being totally naked, which Isaiah was?

.

Nudity goes beyond literal nudity. We have to think in terms of exposing our full possession, not just our physical bodies. Everything we are or claim as ours must be presented to God in this model, otherwise there is no fear of God. No trust / faith. Put otherwise, we can be more naked than just having no clothes on, e.g., we could also be stripped of our wealth, our family, our health...

It is in this respect we can see a progression in the bible, i.e., where more and more layers are stripped away to see if the characters will continue to expose themselves to God, or if they will cover up and hide whatever remains, putting their trust someplace else:

--Isaiah exposes his body, but nothing too bad seems to happen to him.
--Abraham exposes his child, but never has it taken.
--Job is stripped of his children, wealth, and health, but is explicitly spared his life.
--Jesus exposes his life, and to a horrible death at that.

It is in this ultimate respect that Jesus is most naked of all, or at least has his nudity tested.

[Miles]

One of things all people but I presume Christians actually try to do it is to fear God and not fear other things.
...
Do you agree?

Our fear of God should extend from God to all things. It's in the nature of what it means to fear God. To see what I mean, I think it's helpful to look at the first instance of fear of God in the bible, which is Genesis 3, when Adam and Eve are afraid of God because they are naked. Here we see that fear of God is first and foremost the fear of being naked, and then of God presumably for what God may do to us for the things that we have done or expose.

While many Bibles do indeed say in Genesis 3:10 that Adam was afraid and hid because he was naked

New Living Translation
He replied, “I heard you walking in the garden, so I hid. I was afraid because I was naked.”

Just as an aside, wouldn't it be far more accurate to say Adam was afraid, not of being naked per se, but because of what his nakedness told god?---not that god, being omniscient, wouldn't have known how the whole little drama here was going to play out anyway---From the very outset god knew that through his apple incident he wold be establishing a sellable reason to infect humanity with original sin. And sell it he has: 2.2 billion Christians and 4 million Jews have bought the idea.

Other Bibles say they were afraid because they simply heard god walking in the garden.

Tree of Life Version
Then he said, “Your sound—I heard it in the garden and I was afraid. Because I am naked, I hid myself.” [Deftly setting the two situations apart]

So, the only reason here for hiding was because they were ashamed of being naked, not fearful because they were naked.


Moreover, some Bibles don't even mention being afraid.

The Living Bible
And Adam replied, “I heard you coming and didn’t want you to see me naked. So I hid.”


Other than giving god a pretense to lay Original Sin on everyone, I'd say it's not at all clear what part the their nakedness played in fearing god.

.

You are right that the verse could possibly be read in other ways. I'm not an ancient Hebrew scholar so I won't argue that. No matter what though, nudity is a central concept in Genesis 3, and given it is placed so closely here to the first instance of fear of God I think there is reason to at least consider a connection...

In such instances, I find it helpful to go to other texts, to see how the interpretation holds up. Notable here I think are the trial of Abraham and Job, both of whom explicitly had their fear of God tested.

In Job, nudity makes an appearance again in Job's first declaration in 1:21 after being stripped of his children and wealth: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I will depart. ... blessed be the name of the Lord.”

Being stripped bare is the essence of the test, and in this moment we see Job is quite intent on persisting in his nudity / fear of God...

The same can be seen in Abraham's trial, when God asks for Isaac, presumably to see how willing Abraham will be to expose what he most cherishes on the mountaintop. To expose himself and in doing so demonstrate his fear of God...



Once we enter into this way of thinking, it's hard to deny it methinks.

But don't forget Isaiah 20:1-3 where god tells one of his followers, Isaiah, to take off all his clothes and go naked, which Isaiah did, and for three years no less.

Isaiah 20:1-3
1 Sargon was the king of Assyria. He sent his military commander to fight against Ashdod. The commander went there and captured the city. 2 At that time the Lord spoke through Isaiah son of Amoz. He said, “Go, take the sackcloth off your waist and the sandals off your feet.” So Isaiah obeyed the Lord and went without clothes or sandals.

3 Then the Lord said, “My servant Isaiah has gone without clothes or sandals for three years. This is a sign for Egypt and Ethiopia.

So, how bad can going naked really be?

I suppose I would ask Job that one. Or Jesus. Who would have been nailed to the cross naked, and with the cross itself being the most extreme exposure we see in the bible.

Granted that Jesus' situation was more extreme, but I fail to see why his nakedness would be a more extreme exposure than Isaiah's. I mean, how much more naked can a person get than being totally naked, which Isaiah was?

.

Nudity goes beyond literal nudity. We have to think in terms of exposing our full possession, not just our physical bodies. Everything we are or claim as ours must be presented to God in this model, otherwise there is no fear of God. No trust / faith. Put otherwise, we can be more naked than just having no clothes on, e.g., we could also be stripped of our wealth, our family, our health...

It is in this respect we can see a progression in the bible, i.e., where more and more layers are stripped away to see if the characters will continue to expose themselves to God, or if they will cover up and hide whatever remains, putting their trust someplace else:

--Isaiah exposes his body, but nothing too bad seems to happen to him.
--Abraham exposes his child, but never has it taken.
--Job is stripped of his children, wealth, and health, but is explicitly spared his life.
--Jesus exposes his life, and to a horrible death at that.

It is in this ultimate respect that Jesus is most naked of all, or at least has his nudity tested.

Considering that "nudity" never popped up in the discussion I'm a bit puzzled as to why you've bothered to comment on it. That you've gone to the trouble to give it a particular meaning and usage is also somewhat mystifying, if not self-serving, but to each his own. I simply don't buy it. Isaiah was no less naked than was Jesus.

In fact, it can't be said with any certainty that Jesus was ever naked.

John 19:23 (NIV)
When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom.

Plus the fact that scripture never declared Jesus to be naked as it did Isaiah.

.

[boatsnguitars]

Jesus didn't commit suicide by proxy. SUICIDE BY PROXY is when a person that commits capital crimes with the explicit goal of “earning” their executions. There is not record of Jesus committing any crime, much less a capital crime, so there is no evidence he committed suicide by proxy or by any other means.

Maybe you should read the Bible?