Protection of children in schools, USA

[oldbadger]

This my question:-

I've heard about many mass shootings in US schools over recent years.
Assuming that nothing is going to change about gun law at all, does anybody have any positive suggestions for the reduction and deterring of such outrages?

I think that to employ security officers is a good idea if their training, duties, patrols and inspections can be sorted out.
I think that more effective perimeter security could help.
I think that more effective access control would help.

But members...please! What do you think might reduce these mass murders and increase child safety?

NB:- There's not point in arguing for gun controls, because even if guns controls happen, this country is so full of guns that anybody is going to be able to acquire a gun for many decades to come.

So.... does any body have any ideas to offer?

Thank you.

[oldbadger]

Is that your solution? Fortify schools and leave the mean streets to be mean? Such an event shouldn't have to be tucked away inside for fear of gunfire, and with better gun laws they wouldn't have to be.

This thread is about school security. Your streets are going to be riddled with guns for generations, even with gun controls.

Do UK teachers carry guns in their schools? From the comments of these British observers, I doubt it:

Apart from antiques, all pistols are banned in Great Britain.

Maybe you should try convincing them before you try to convince me.

...convincing them of what?

And all I am proposing is decent school security throughout your country.......... which you seem to be objecting to. How strange!

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #31

Your streets are going to be riddled with guns for generations, even with gun controls.

First it was "decades", now it's "generations"? How long would you have us drag out the defeatist complacency?

And all I am proposing is decent school security throughout your country.......... which you seem to be objecting to.

As I've indicated in my references, I object to measures which are counterproductive to the point of being decidedly INdecent.

[oldbadger]

First it was "decades", now it's "generations"? How long would you have us drag out the defeatist complacency?

Decades ....who many is that?....... maybe 7? That alone would be two generations.
And I think that you know it would be true....... there are over 300 millions (or more!) of guns stuffed in to your country.
Now..... what gun controls would you want, exactly? If you show these new laws here we could guess at how soon they would have effect........ ok?
Now, what do you think is possible?

As I've indicated in my references, I object to measures which are counterproductive to the point of being decidedly INdecent.

Good security can only increase the protection and safety of children in schools..... you either want that or your don't.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #33

Decades ....who many is that?....... maybe 7? That alone would be two generations.

Where do you get an arbitrary 7? Do you bump it up to get plural "generations"?

there are over 300 millions (or more!) of guns stuffed in to your country.
Now..... what gun controls would you want, exactly?

Banning the private sale of such terrors as the AR-15. There's no legitimate reason for any private citizen to possess such a military weapon. Background checks for all firearm purchases must be tightened and psychological profiling should be mandatory.

Now, what do you think is possible?

It's all possible. States are already starting to step up where the federal government hasn't, even in the face of opposition:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/3-states-pass ... d=98942364

Good security can only increase the protection and safety of children in schools..... you either want that or your don't.

All the "high security" in the world won't be enough, as the recent shooting outside the school illustrates. If there's too much security inside a school, an attacker can just wait outside.

Keeping guns out of the hands of the violent is the best security measure you can take......you either want that or you don't.

[oldbadger]

Banning the private sale of such terrors as the AR-15. There's no legitimate reason for any private citizen to possess such a military weapon. Background checks for all firearm purchases must be tightened and psychological profiling should be mandatory.

Good ideas, but a very weak list.
Yes, semi-automatic rifles are quite unnecessary for civilians.
Yes, background checks for licence applicants.
Yes, pscycho checks, although some reasonable people will be wrongly assessed....both ways.

But I've been proposing more than that for a very long time:-
All applicants should be trained, examined and qualified to keep a gun.
All gun holders must hold mandatory third party all risks insurance........ at present very few owners are insured.
All licence applicants must be home visited by the local police, who should inspect their homes for adequate security provisions.
All gun keepers must have a Gun safe installed in their home and a provision of any licence is that all guns should be kept in it when not being used.

........................there's more, but you get the idea.

All the "high security" in the world won't be enough, as the recent shooting outside the school illustrates. If there's too much security inside a school, an attacker can just wait outside.

Keeping guns out of the hands of the violent is the best security measure you can take......you either want that or you don't.

I've been suggesting some decent gun controls for ages............. but nothing. In ten years, will there be anything?
And to dismiss decent security in schools is just careless, and a very obtuse idea.

You need both, but you won't get the one and you dismiss the other.
Now........ how many mass killings in schools will there be this year, eh? Let's take a look in a year's time, and I will be pointing a finger...at you, I think.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #35

All applicants should be trained, examined and qualified to keep a gun.

The sources I've provided illustrate that this is the weakest and most highly problematic measure. Again, who's going to wave a wand and make the training better than it's indicated to be? Simply saying, "trained" doesn't make the training good.

All licence applicants must be home visited by the local police, who should inspect their homes for adequate security provisions.
All gun keepers must have a Gun safe installed in their home and a provision of any licence is that all guns should be kept in it when not being used.

Leaning in the direction of the Swiss model, registration of every firearm with the government should be mandatory. Every firearm should also have to be equipped with tracking technology which cannot be disabled without alerting someone. The thing is, if you want to talk about something taking decades......or generations......

And to dismiss decent security in schools is just careless, and a very obtuse idea.

.....

You need both, but you won't get the one and you dismiss the other.

You keep repeating that misnomer. It isn't a dismissal of security measures to recognize that they're inadequate on their own.

[oldbadger]

The sources I've provided illustrate that this is the weakest and most highly problematic measure. Again, who's going to wave a wand and make the training better than it's indicated to be? Simply saying, "trained" doesn't make the training good.

You could say that to try and discredit your entire educational system. So far you have told me that your teachers are all stupid, your police are incompetent and now your education plans are inept.
I don't think you have too much respect for your country, somehow.

Leaning in the direction of the Swiss model, registration of every firearm with the government should be mandatory. Every firearm should also have to be equipped with tracking technology which cannot be disabled without alerting someone. The thing is, if you want to talk about something taking decades......or generations......

You'll never get that.............. Gun controls will happen 'piece at a time' if at all. So good luck with that.

You keep repeating that misnomer. It isn't a dismissal of security measures to recognize that they're inadequate on their own.

That's a very strange thing to say about security measures. If you knew anything about security measures then you would know that they all have a value, from the simplest signs to the most expensive systems.

You just don't know what you're talking about, I'm sad to say.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #37

So far you have told me that your teachers are all stupid, your police are incompetent and now your education plans are inept.

Are you attempting some comical hyperbole? If you have to resort to that, why do you continue?

You'll never get that.............. Gun controls will happen 'piece at a time' if at all. So good luck with that.

So now it's gone from "decades" to "generations" to "never". If you support gun control measures at all, you're not doing a very good job of it.

If you knew anything about security measures then you would know that they all have a value, from the simplest signs to the most expensive systems.

Apparently you missed the "inadequate on their own" part. Again, the fanciest security system in the world isn't going to stop an attacker who simply waits outside.

Meanwhile, gun-control opponents can say, "Aw, c'mon......we don't need restrictions on guns.....look at all the security we have!"

[oldbadger]

Are you attempting some comical hyperbole? If you have to resort to that, why do you continue?

You have told me that none of your teachers are fit to carry a gun to school, and your cops shoot the wrong people all the time.
You've trashed so many people, and all Americans!

So now it's gone from "decades" to "generations" to "never". If you support gun control measures at all, you're not doing a very good job of it.

Ha ha! ...... school and child killings (and all the others) have gone on and on for soooooo long, and you're criticising me as not good at supporting gun control? You've failed all the way along the line for decades, and so I think of what can be done now to increase safety, protection and security.

Apparently you missed the "inadequate on their own" part. Again, the fanciest security system in the world isn't going to stop an attacker who simply waits outside.

What a silly thing to say! For instance, why do you think I've been mentioning shrouding, so that at least a nut with a gun cannot see in so easily.
Many mass shootings take place outside buildings in the US, we read about them all the time. And so you think this means that no premises should bother with a lock or bolt? Oh dear!

Meanwhile, gun-control opponents can say, "Aw, c'mon......we don't need restrictions on guns.....look at all the security we have!"

Gun control nuts are a bit like you in some ways............ they can't think of anything but their guns, and you about clearing your country of them...... extremists all.? Good luck with that!

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #39

You have told me that none of your teachers are fit to carry a gun to school, and your cops shoot the wrong people all the time.

I've told you that teachers aren't the ones to be armed, which is a far cry from saying that they are "all stupid" (your words). And I've told you that police miss their targets far too often for us to be relying on their accuracy to keep kids safe or to train teachers to do so.

Ha ha! ...... school and child killings (and all the others) have gone on and on for soooooo long, and you're criticising me as not good at supporting gun control? You've failed all the way along the line for decades, and so I think of what can be done now to increase safety, protection and security.

You've thought of what can be done to increase security. Increasing security alone isn't enough to increase safety.


Apparently you missed the "inadequate on their own" part. Again, the fanciest security system in the world isn't going to stop an attacker who simply waits outside.

What a silly thing to say! For instance, why do you think I've been mentioning shrouding, so that at least a nut with a gun cannot see in so easily.

It's good to keep an attacker from seeing in, but what good is it going to do once you're out?

Many mass shootings take place outside buildings in the US, we read about them all the time. And so you think this means that no premises should bother with a lock or bolt? Oh dear!

More comical hyperbole.

Gun control nuts are a bit like you in some ways............ they can't think of anything but their guns, and you about clearing your country of them...... extremists all.? Good luck with that!

Clearing the country of access to the worst of them, and keeping all of them away from those who shouldn't have them. There is absolutely nothing "extremist" in that.

Sadly, there are those you remind me of as well----those who think we should accept the threat of gun violence as "a hazard we all have to live with" or "the price of freedom". Living in freedom includes living in freedom from fear, and we're not living free from fear as long as we spend our lives scurrying from one steel-reinforced hiding place to another, hoping not to be cut down along the way.