Questions about Jesus and JW’s

[MissKate13]

1. Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus was “a god.” This is how the NWT reads (John 1:1).

Do JW’s believe Jesus was a true or false god?

2. JW’s say Jesus is a created being.

When was Jesus (capital or lower case g) created?

I look forward to your responses to one or both questions.

MissKate13

[MissKate13]

Please address my post # 191 in your own words. I do not read links, so please don’t waste space posting them.

Oh you don't read the encyclopedia Britannica and see it as a waste of space?
Wow! My bad, I thought you read reference works?

At any rate, the encyclopedia is very different about its description of the trinity from the one you present.

Your post is precisely why I ignore most of the posts you write. Unless you have something that will actually contribute to the discussion, like addressing my post #191, I have nothing further to write to you. It’s a waste of my valuable time.

[2timothy316]

Please address my post # 191 in your own words. I do not read links, so please don’t waste space posting them.

Oh you don't read the encyclopedia Britannica and see it as a waste of space?
Wow! My bad, I thought you read reference works?

At any rate, the encyclopedia is very different about its description of the trinity from the one you present.

Your post is precisely why I ignore most of the posts you write. Unless you have something that will actually contribute to the discussion, like addressing my post #191, I have nothing further to write to you. It’s a waste of my valuable time.

That is certainly your right to ignore my posts. I did however make a new thread so that you might want to take a look at. I'm interested if any trinitarian would like to comment on your break from the traditional doctrine. The fact that you're not unified with other trinitarians is most intriguing.
viewtopic.php?t=40444

[MissKate13]

Please address my post # 191 in your own words. I do not read links, so please don’t waste space posting them.

Oh you don't read the encyclopedia Britannica and see it as a waste of space?
Wow! My bad, I thought you read reference works?

At any rate, the encyclopedia is very different about its description of the trinity from the one you present.

Your post is precisely why I ignore most of the posts you write. Unless you have something that will actually contribute to the discussion, like addressing my post #191, I have nothing further to write to you. It’s a waste of my valuable time.

That is certainly your right to ignore my posts. I did however make a new thread so that you might want to take a look at. I'm interested if any trinitarian would like to comment on your break from the traditional doctrine. The fact that you're not unified with other trinitarians is most intriguing.
viewtopic.php?t=40444

I’m not interested in other threads, especially yours, since you don’t bother to address my points. You pick and choose those you think you can prove invalid and ignore the rest.

I think you misunderstand my position. Just because I don’t use the term trinity does not mean I am not unified with those who do. They simply choose to express their beliefs differently. I have often shared with them that I believe Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the ONE TRUE GOD. Not a one has ever challenged me on it.

[Eloi]

Jesus told his listeners many times that their/his Father was in heaven. For example, Matthew records that teaching of Jesus here:

Matthew 5:16 Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens.
(...) 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. (...) You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

6:1 Take care not to practice your righteousness in front of men to be noticed by them; otherwise you will have no reward with your Father who is in the heavens.
(...) 9 You must pray, then, this way: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. ..."
(...) 14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you ...
(...) 26 Observe intently the birds of heaven; they do not sow seed or reap or gather into storehouses, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth more than they are? (...) 32 For all these are the things the nations are eagerly pursuing. Your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

... 7:11 Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him!
(...) 21 Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

... 10:32 Everyone, then, who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father who is in the heavens. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens.

... 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, that one is my brother and sister and mother.

... 15:13 In reply he said: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted.

... 16:17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Joʹnah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did."

... 18:10 See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my Father who is in heaven.
(...) 14 Likewise, it is not a desirable thing to my Father who is in heaven for even one of these little ones to perish.
(...) 19 Again I tell you truly, if two of you on earth agree concerning anything of importance that they should request, it will take place for them on account of my Father in heaven.
(...) 35 My heavenly Father will also deal with you in the same way if each of you does not forgive your brother from your heart.”

... 23:9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.


Do you think that Jesus' followers did not know where the Father was?

[MissKate13]

Jesus told his listeners many times that their/his Father was in heaven. For example, Matthew records that teaching of Jesus here:

Matthew 5:16 Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens.
(...) 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. (...) You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

6:1 Take care not to practice your righteousness in front of men to be noticed by them; otherwise you will have no reward with your Father who is in the heavens.
(...) 9 You must pray, then, this way: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. ..."
(...) 14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you ...
(...) 26 Observe intently the birds of heaven; they do not sow seed or reap or gather into storehouses, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth more than they are? (...) 32 For all these are the things the nations are eagerly pursuing. Your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

... 7:11 Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him!
(...) 21 Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

... 10:32 Everyone, then, who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father who is in the heavens. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens.

... 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, that one is my brother and sister and mother.

... 15:13 In reply he said: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted.

... 16:17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Joʹnah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did."

... 18:10 See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my Father who is in heaven.
(...) 14 Likewise, it is not a desirable thing to my Father who is in heaven for even one of these little ones to perish.
(...) 19 Again I tell you truly, if two of you on earth agree concerning anything of importance that they should request, it will take place for them on account of my Father in heaven.
(...) 35 My heavenly Father will also deal with you in the same way if each of you does not forgive your brother from your heart.”

... 23:9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.


Do you think that Jesus' followers did not know where the Father was?

Do you not get that with our great YHWH all things are possible, and that He can be in more than one place at a time? He can appear in many different forms. YHWH appeared to Abraham in the form of a man (Genesis 18:1)

He appeared as a cloud by day and fire by night. He is YHWH. NOTHING is impossible or too hard for Him.

“By day the LORD went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel by day or night.” (Exodus 13:21)

YHWH is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He is everywhere. He currently lives in my heart.

[2timothy316]

Just because I don’t use the term trinity does not mean I am not unified with those who do.

Clearly.

They simply choose to express their beliefs differently. I have often shared with them that I believe Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the ONE TRUE GOD. Not a one has ever challenged me on it.

I have asked what should be an easy question to answer. To see if any trinitarians will challenge this view of yours and figure out if any trinitarian truly knows what they are talking about when it comes to their own doctrine.

[Eloi]

No one in the heavenly realms believes the lies that are taught on earth about who is God and who is Jesus.

Dan. 7:13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed."

[MissKate13]

No one in the heavenly realms believes the lies that are taught on earth about who is God and who is Jesus.

Dan. 7:13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed."

Those in the heavenly realms sure don’t believe the Watchtower lies. In fact they’re probably disgusted by their countless flip-flops.

What we are seeing in Daniel 7:13-14 is the ascension of Jesus Christ as He returns to the Father in heaven. Notice Acts 1:9, "And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight." The apostles watched Jesus ascend in a cloud to heaven (Acts 1:11 ). In Daniel 7, we are seeing the Father’s perspective as Jesus returns in a cloud to the Father in heaven.

What you seem to miss in the Daniel passage is that this is when Jesus received the kingdom, the one He established on Pentecost.

This is why a true student of the Bible, and not Watchtower propaganda, can say the kingdom of our dear Lird and Savior, Jesus Christ, is here NOW, and they have been translated into it.

This is why Jesus and John the Baptist preached the kingdom was at hand. It would come at Jesus’ ascension (Mark 9:1; Acts 1:8; 2:1-4).

This is why Paul, John and the author of Hebrews could speak of the kingdom in the present tense.

13 “He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,…” (Colossians 1:13)

9 “I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.” (Rev. 1:9)

28 “Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.” (Hebrews 12:28)

[JehovahsWitness]

If we define person as an intelligent individual with their own autonomous will (desires) capable of making independent moral decisions.

I posted my beliefs. I don’t use the term trinity.

This is JW kate, I did not use the term trinity. I am trying to see if you think of God as a person and if so if you agree with the above definition of personnage. If you cannot or don't want to answer I do understand. Thank you so much anyway,

Be Blessed and love to you and yours,

JW

[MissKate13]

If we define person as an intelligent individual with their own autonomous will (desires) capable of making independent moral decisions.

I posted my beliefs. I don’t use the term trinity.

This is JW kate, I did not use the term trinity. I am trying to see if you think of God as a person and if so if you agree with the above definition of personnage. If you cannot or don't want to answer I do understand. Thank you so much anyway,

Be Blessed and love to you and yours,

JW

I’ve already posted my view.