Trinity

[Ross]

Where did this concept come from?

I would suggest it began with John 1:1

[Miles]

Where did this concept come from?

From the World History Encyclopedia

Tertullian (155-200 CE) was the first to use the Latin term 'trinity'. He described it as a "divine economy" as in the household or monarchy of God. God the Father laid out the divine plan, God the Son carried out the will of the Father, and God the Spirit motivated the will of God in believers (Adversus Praxean, 27). . . .

In 312 CE, Roman emperor Constantine I (r. 306-337 CE) converted to Christianity and simultaneously became head of the Christian Church. He promoted the unity of belief throughout the empire. The concept of the Trinity could have remained an intellectual endeavor only, but a controversy emerged in the city of Alexandria that spilled over into other cities (318-321 CE). Arius, a presbyter in Alexandria taught that if one believed that God created everything, then at one time, he must have created Christ. Indeed, the very terms the Father and the Son indicated that Christ was subordinate to God. The bishop of Alexandria excommunicated Arius, but other church leaders took his side. Riots broke out among the various factions in different cities.

In 325 CE, Constantine called for an empire-wide council to resolve the matter. The challenge was to articulate the way in which the oneness of God was also found in his transcendence (through the power of the Spirit) and his incarnate nature (taking on flesh in the Son). The meeting was held in Nicaea, near the new capital of Constantinople that was still in progress. Roughly 217 bishops attended along with their entourages. . . .

The debates on the Trinity were quite esoteric and included philosophical ideas of the universe. Was Christ homo-ousios, a being like the Father, or was he homoi-ousios, of the identical essence of the Father? Note that the difference is in an iota, a subtle difference in the Greek. The Council opted for the second choice in that God and Christ were identical in essence and that Christ was a manifestation of God himself on earth. Beyond the esoteric theology, however, the practical implication for the choice of Christ being identical to the essence of God was that it theoretically kept the monotheism of traditional Judaism intact. Having Christ identical to God, confirmed the view that Christ was pre-existent and helped to create the universe.
source and much more

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[historia]

Was Christ homo-ousios, a being like the Father, or was he homoi-ousios, of the identical essence of the Father? Note that the difference is in an iota, a subtle difference in the Greek.

This is neither here nor there in the discussion, but, for the sake of clarity, this article oddly has this backwards: homo-ousian means of the "same" or identical essence (just as "homo-sexual" means the same sex), while homoi-ousian means of a "like" or similar essence.

[Ross]

The Council opted for the second choice in that God and Christ were identical in essence and that Christ was a manifestation of God himself on earth.

John 1:1,14
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD."
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory"

[Miles]

The Council opted for the second choice in that God and Christ were identical in essence and that Christ was a manifestation of God himself on earth.

John 1:1,14
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD."
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory"

FYI, in as much as these are not my words, but those appearing in the World History Encyclopedia, any issue you have with what's said will have to be taken up with them.

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[William]

OPQ: "Trinity" Where did this concept come from?



William: To answer the OPQ, the concept came from humans trying to figure out the nature of a god-concept which came from the Hebrews "The LORD is ONE" and mixed in with the Gentiles and their many-gods concept.

Neither concept is incorrect, except maybe as stand-alone, for each concept compliments the other when the concepts are properly aligned.

The "Us" doesn't reference any particular number which can be assigned to the nature of GOD, for we do not know how many individual parts were involved in the initial creative impulse in designing this universe.

What it does indicate is that there was a Mind, there was Instruction and there was the Doing.

And after that initial Doing was Done - there was rest before the next epoch really got under way, and more Doing was Done.

Given the thread of YHVH's influence re the human aspect of this image, at least 2 more can be added to the trinity idea...the human man and woman, made in the image of...somehow lost the knowledge, or maybe never knew the knowledge and having to work it out...

It is all about aligning one's individual mind with the overall Mind and thus being counted as part of the "Us" team, Doing The One's Thing, Together

[tigger 2]

Where did this concept come from?

I would suggest it began with John 1:1

.................................................

“Where did this concept come from?”


http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.co ... part.html

“I would suggest it began with John 1:1”


http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com ... er_21.html

[Ross]

The Council opted for the second choice in that God and Christ were identical in essence and that Christ was a manifestation of God himself on earth.

John 1:1,14
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD."
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory"

FYI, in as much as these are not my words, but those appearing in the World History Encyclopedia, any issue you have with what's said will have to be taken up with them.

.

Hi Miles, I was actually agreeing with the comments in the World History Encyclopedia, and highlighting the Biblical text which is the obvious source for the context of the decision of the Council, ( the debate of this thread.)
Sorry for any confusion. I should have perhaps added an explanation.

[Ross]

Where did this concept come from?

I would suggest it began with John 1:1

.................................................

“Where did this concept come from?”


http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/ - see "History of the Trinity Doctrine (HIST)"

“I would suggest it began with John 1:1”


http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/ - See: "John 1:1c Primer"

Hi Tigger,
I would very much like to discuss these matters with you, but not if you simply ask me to read J.W.ORG propaganda.
Are you able to put these points or even one of them into your own words please?

[bjs1]

Where did this concept come from?

I would suggest it began with John 1:1

I would suggest that it was established at the Nicene Council convened by the Roman emperor Constantine (beast with two horns like a lamb) in 325 A.D., and became authoritarian by the decree of the Roman emperor Theodosius in 380 A.D. .

Tertullian, in his Adversus Praxeas (c. 210 A.D.), defended the doctrine of the trinity, and described the doctrine as referring to one God who exists in the three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This means that the doctrine of the Trinity was established more than a century before the Nicene Council. More than that, Tertullian defend the doctrine; he did not create it. So by the start of the 3rd century the doctrine not only existed, but it was well established enough to have critics and to be defended by one of the most prominent writers of the day.

The idea that the doctrine of the Trinity was established at the Nicene Council cannot be considered historically accurate.

[Ross]

Where did this concept come from?

I would suggest it began with John 1:1

I would suggest that it was established at the Nicene Council convened by the Roman emperor Constantine (beast with two horns like a lamb) in 325 A.D., and became authoritarian by the decree of the Roman emperor Theodosius in 380 A.D. .

Tertullian, in his Adversus Praxeas (c. 210 A.D.), defended the doctrine of the trinity, and described the doctrine as referring to one God who exists in the three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This means that the doctrine of the Trinity was established more than a century before the Nicene Council. More than that, Tertullian defend the doctrine; he did not create it. So by the start of the 3rd century the doctrine not only existed, but it was well established enough to have critics and to be defended by one of the most prominent writers of the day.

The idea that the doctrine of the Trinity was established at the Nicene Council cannot be considered historically accurate.

Very well explained.