Apostasy!

[historia]

For those who believe the Early Church fell into apostasy, when did this happen?

If I want to compare early Christian sources that are pre-apostasy with those that are post-apostasy, what date should I set?

[MissKate13]

[Replying to historia in post #1]

Imho, apostasy began while the apostles were still alive. I think the greatest apostasy began at the time of Constantine when a large part of the church of Christ evolved into what we now call Catholicism. However, since Jesus promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church, I believe there was and always has been a true church which belongs to Christ. It’s not a denomination. It’s not Catholic. It’s not Eastern Orthodox, and it’s not Protestant. It is simply the Lord’s congregation who live, worship work and organize according to the pattern set out for us in the New Testament.

Apostasy continues today. Any departure from the word of God is apostasy.

[historia]

[Replying to MissKate13 in post #2]

In your opinion, if I want to compare early Christian authors that are pre-apostasy with those that are post-apostasy, what date should I set?

[Ross]

For those who believe the Early Church fell into apostasy, when did this happen?

If I want to compare early Christian sources that are pre-apostasy with those that are post-apostasy, what date should I set?

Acts 20:29,30 states:
"I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them"

Apostasy or heretical teachings entered early Christianity full on with the disappearance of the Apostles as the above verses make clear. Enter the later period of the early Church Fathers, and there are multiple variations of Biblical interpretation.

Matthew 28:19,20 The Great Commission indicates that there would always be true disciples:

"Behold, I am with you ALL OF THE DAYS until the end of the world"

Some have interpreted this to mean that The Lord would work through the church even as it became corrupted. Others have concluded that tiny splinter groups of true believers would always be there. It does seem to indicate against a complete Apostasy with a latter day revival of God's making in my opinion.

The parable of the Wheat and Tares leads me to believe that the true believers would be amongst the fallen or corrupted Christianity or Church rather than being separated into a single belief system or denomination.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to MissKate13 in post #2]

In your opinion, if I want to compare early Christian authors that are pre-apostasy with those that are post-apostasy, what date should I set?

"Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way." - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-7

Paul wrote this probably around 50 CE. So at early as 50 CE the "lawlessness" of the apostasy was 'already at work'. There was something in the way of the apostasy. This would be the apostles. Yet Paul didn't fully understand the 'mystery of lawlessness'.

John around 98 CE wrote, "Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour." - 1 john 2:18.
John denoting the 'last hour' meant that the great apostasy had built up greatly and that abundance of true worship was in it's last hour. John, exiled, the last living apostle, was the last one acting as a restraint of the great apostasy. It appears the mystery was no longer a mystery by this time. It was clear that true worship about to be trampled on.

So if you're looking for a date, an exact date can't be produced. Why? Because it wasn't as if the great apostasy happened on a specific day, it was gradual and spanned decades. Yet we can see from the scriptures that even in the last days of John's life, the apostates where starting to get the upper hand and clearly had gained more support than when Paul write his letter to the Thessalonians 48 years earlier when there were more true worshipers.

This is in harmony with what was said in Post 4 about the weeds and the wheat growing together. After the death of John there have been those that have spoken up for true worship in apostate organizations. Sadly many that spoke up were either exiled or killed. So they had to be secretive and discreet until it was time for the harvest and the weeds and wheat could be told apart based on what they produced.

[historia]

So if you're looking for a date, an exact date can't be produced. Why? Because it wasn't as if the great apostasy happened on a specific day, it was gradual and spanned decades.

I'll take a rough date, give or take a couple of decades. What is your estimate?

[Ross]

It would be scripturally and historically incorrect to put a date on it.
You could say that by the time of the death of the Apostles it had began to take hold of Christianity, but that it was a gradual transition.

[historia]

You could say that by the time of the death of the Apostles it had began to take hold of Christianity, but that it was a gradual transition.

Okay, but a gradual transition to when?

If there is a Great Apostasy, as some here hold -- and I'm not sure you do, Ross, so maybe this is not a question for you -- when did that happen?

[Ross]

You could say that by the time of the death of the Apostles it had began to take hold of Christianity, but that it was a gradual transition.

Okay, but a gradual transition to when?

If there is a Great Apostasy, as some here hold -- and I'm not sure you do, Ross, so maybe this is not a question for you -- when did that happen?

When men began to organise Christianity into institutions. After the Apostles of Jesus died.

But it began during their lifetime and they seen it emerge.

You cannot reduce everything into dates, especially when much of history is lost.

It is even difficult to determine what is a subject of early Christianity or Apostasy.

[Ross]

so maybe this is not a question for you

I have found very little response from my posts on this forum, so I may move on soon. Hope you find answers to your questions.