Is the Earth really ruled by Satan?

[William]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2636]

YHVH informs me that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth and always has been.

It would appear that if Satan works for YHVH as a means of sorting out those who understand YHVH is the most high over all the Earth from those who believe otherwise, then this does not change the fact that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth.

Satan is not working FOR Jehovah. He is working against Him. He challenged Jehovah that he could prove that mankind could live without Him and was given the opportunity by Jehovah. Jehovah is the Most High but has allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Why else do you think the world is in such a mess? You think Jehovah rules this way? Satan is fast losing his challenge.

Q: Is this belief a logical and productive way in which to understand our world and our place in it?

[JehovahsWitness]

Satan is not YHVH's adversary.

IS SATAN GOD'S ADVERSARY?

1. The Hebrew term SATAN (Hebrew: שָׂטָן) is a generic noun meaning "accuser" or "adversary"; The book of Job reveals that Satan accuses God of misconduct; thus Satan is by default an adversary of God (see Job 1:10 compare Prov 27:11)

By falsely accusing God of misuse of his powers Satan showed himself to be God's adversary

2. Zechariah 2 verse 9 shows that Jehovah views those that mistreat his servants as mistreating Him the Almighty; therefore as an enemy of God's people Satan automatically becomes an enemy (adversary) of God - compare Acts 5:39b , 26:14

3. James explains "friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God" Since Satan is the god or the ruler of this world, he must himself be its friend. Thus Satan is necessarily God's enemy (adversary)

4. Jesus is given authority to fight Satan by his father. Satan is thus revealed to be the enemy not only of Jesus but of YHWH whom he (Jesus) perfectly represents. (Rev 12:7)

JW



RELATED POSTS

What did Satan do that was so wrong?
viewtopic.php?p=1049253#p1049253

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2636]

YHVH informs me that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth and always has been.

It would appear that if Satan works for YHVH as a means of sorting out those who understand YHVH is the most high over all the Earth from those who believe otherwise, then this does not change the fact that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth.

Satan is not working FOR Jehovah. He is working against Him. He challenged Jehovah that he could prove that mankind could live without Him and was given the opportunity by Jehovah. Jehovah is the Most High but has allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Why else do you think the world is in such a mess? You think Jehovah rules this way? Satan is fast losing his challenge.

Q: Is this belief a logical and productive way in which to understand our world and our place in it?

Whatever way you choose to understand it, the fact remains that the Bible tells us that Satan rules the world. And it IS logical, seeing as how the planet is chaotic and unjust, with much suffering.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2636]

YHVH informs me that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth and always has been.

It would appear that if Satan works for YHVH as a means of sorting out those who understand YHVH is the most high over all the Earth from those who believe otherwise, then this does not change the fact that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth.

Satan is not working FOR Jehovah. He is working against Him. He challenged Jehovah that he could prove that mankind could live without Him and was given the opportunity by Jehovah. Jehovah is the Most High but has allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Why else do you think the world is in such a mess? You think Jehovah rules this way? Satan is fast losing his challenge.

Q: Is this belief a logical and productive way in which to understand our world and our place in it?

If one believed in fantasies, perhaps.

But concerning Satan: I would think that if Satan was working against Jehovah, Jehovah could permanently take him out in the first round. No?

And I'm curious as to where the Bible says god allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Is there a chapter and verse?

.

Jehovah COULD take out Satan whenever He pleased, but He wanted to allow His adversary time to prove that he, Satan, could rule the world better than even Jehovah. It was a challenge that merited attention, as all the universe would be interested to see if the challenge could be met.

Satan said to Jehovah: " 'Skin for skin, a man will give everything that he has for his life. But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike his bone and flesh, and he will surely curse you to your very face.' Then Jehovah said to Satan: 'Look! He is in your hand! Only do not take his life!' So Satan went out...and struck Job with painful boils...." Satan also killed off all of Job's flocks and his very children. His challenge also involved all men, because he said to Jehovah that "a man will give everything for his life." And he has shown that this is true for perhaps a majority of men, but many have maintained their integrity, like Job, thus proving Satan a lying wind-bag. (Job 2:4-7)

Luke 4:6 shows that Satan was given rulership of the world, and Revelation 12:12 shows that he has a set period of time. Revelation 12:12: "...Be glad you heavens...Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time."

[Miles]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2636]

YHVH informs me that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth and always has been.

It would appear that if Satan works for YHVH as a means of sorting out those who understand YHVH is the most high over all the Earth from those who believe otherwise, then this does not change the fact that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth.

Satan is not working FOR Jehovah. He is working against Him. He challenged Jehovah that he could prove that mankind could live without Him and was given the opportunity by Jehovah. Jehovah is the Most High but has allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Why else do you think the world is in such a mess? You think Jehovah rules this way? Satan is fast losing his challenge.

Q: Is this belief a logical and productive way in which to understand our world and our place in it?

If one believed in fantasies, perhaps.

But concerning Satan: I would think that if Satan was working against Jehovah, Jehovah could permanently take him out in the first round. No?

And I'm curious as to where the Bible says god allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Is there a chapter and verse?

.

Jehovah COULD take out Satan whenever He pleased, but He wanted to allow His adversary time to prove that he, Satan, could rule the world better than even Jehovah. It was a challenge that merited attention, as all the universe would be interested to see if the challenge could be met.

Prove to whom? Being omniscient wouldn't god already know the outcome? But more importantly, why would Satan be able to rule the world better than even Jehovah? I thought god was thee almighty Big Guy in the Bible story. No?

Luke 4:6 shows that Satan was given rulership of the world,

Actually, that's only Satan's claim. Is there any verse in which god actually gives Satan ruler-ship of the world?

.

[William]

Jehovah COULD take out Satan whenever He pleased, but He wanted to allow His adversary time to prove that he, Satan, could rule the world better than even Jehovah.

Q: Can you give the reader some biblical script which verifies this reason you are giving as to why YHVH wanted to allow Satan "time to prove" whether Satan could "rule the world better than even YHVH."

While you are at it, please provide any script which tells us that YHVH was ever ruling the world.

It was a challenge that merited attention, as all the universe would be interested to see if the challenge could be met.

Q: What do you mean by "all the universe"?

[myth-one.com]

Jehovah COULD take out Satan whenever He pleased, .. .

Not sure who posted this as William did not identify the poster, but God can never kill (if that is what you mean by take out) Satan, because God created Satan (originally Lucifer) to live forever.

Satan will rule the world until his defenders are overthrown in battle by God:

Revelation 20:9]
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Since Satan cannot be killed, he will be imprisoned in the lake of fire eternally:

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #36]

Since Satan cannot be killed, he will be imprisoned in the lake of fire eternally:

Q: Are you saying it is impossible for YHVH to destroy Satan, or something else?

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Whomever experienced that and wrote about it, had an extremely unpleasant persona.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #36]

Since Satan cannot be killed, he will be imprisoned in the lake of fire eternally:

Q: Are you saying it is impossible for YHVH to destroy Satan, or something else?

He cannot be killed, his life cannot be taken, because he was created as an immortal spiritual bodied being.

His power and his position as ruler over the earth can be destroyed.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Whomever experienced that and wrote about it, had an extremely unpleasant persona.

Revelation 20:7-10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The devil cannot be killed because he is a spirit. The fire and brimstone are not for him, but are there to kill humans which shall be cast into hell and suffer their second death. It is the devil who will be tormented day and night for eternity, not the mythical souls of nonbelievers! This cannot be physical torture since the devil's spiritual body does not feel pain. It is the torment of knowing he failed, being defeated, seeing lowly humans being upgraded to take his place, never being given another opportunity, separation from the Kingdom of God, etc. He has rebelled, been defeated, and lost his freedom and authority for eternity.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #38]

The devil cannot be killed because he is a spirit.

What do you know about spirits that you can claim this as true?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2636]

YHVH informs me that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth and always has been.

It would appear that if Satan works for YHVH as a means of sorting out those who understand YHVH is the most high over all the Earth from those who believe otherwise, then this does not change the fact that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth.

Satan is not working FOR Jehovah. He is working against Him. He challenged Jehovah that he could prove that mankind could live without Him and was given the opportunity by Jehovah. Jehovah is the Most High but has allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Why else do you think the world is in such a mess? You think Jehovah rules this way? Satan is fast losing his challenge.

Q: Is this belief a logical and productive way in which to understand our world and our place in it?

If one believed in fantasies, perhaps.

But concerning Satan: I would think that if Satan was working against Jehovah, Jehovah could permanently take him out in the first round. No?

And I'm curious as to where the Bible says god allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Is there a chapter and verse?

.

Jehovah COULD take out Satan whenever He pleased, but He wanted to allow His adversary time to prove that he, Satan, could rule the world better than even Jehovah. It was a challenge that merited attention, as all the universe would be interested to see if the challenge could be met.

Prove to whom? Being omniscient wouldn't god already know the outcome? But more importantly, why would Satan be able to rule the world better than even Jehovah? I thought god was thee almighty Big Guy in the Bible story. No?

Luke 4:6 shows that Satan was given rulership of the world,

Actually, that's only Satan's claim. Is there any verse in which god actually gives Satan ruler-ship of the world?

.

All the angels and men would be interested to know how far Satan could go with his claim. Even if Jehovah saw fit to see the outcome, he would still give Satan the chance to prove his challenge. (Of course He knows the outcome. But the challenge is given credence so that it can be shown forever that no one else can rule the world better than Jehovah.)

If God hadn't given Satan rulership, surely Jesus would have corrected him.