Is the Earth really ruled by Satan?

[William]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2636]

YHVH informs me that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth and always has been.

It would appear that if Satan works for YHVH as a means of sorting out those who understand YHVH is the most high over all the Earth from those who believe otherwise, then this does not change the fact that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth.

Satan is not working FOR Jehovah. He is working against Him. He challenged Jehovah that he could prove that mankind could live without Him and was given the opportunity by Jehovah. Jehovah is the Most High but has allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Why else do you think the world is in such a mess? You think Jehovah rules this way? Satan is fast losing his challenge.

Q: Is this belief a logical and productive way in which to understand our world and our place in it?

[Miles]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2636]

YHVH informs me that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth and always has been.

It would appear that if Satan works for YHVH as a means of sorting out those who understand YHVH is the most high over all the Earth from those who believe otherwise, then this does not change the fact that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth.

Satan is not working FOR Jehovah. He is working against Him. He challenged Jehovah that he could prove that mankind could live without Him and was given the opportunity by Jehovah. Jehovah is the Most High but has allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Why else do you think the world is in such a mess? You think Jehovah rules this way? Satan is fast losing his challenge.

Q: Is this belief a logical and productive way in which to understand our world and our place in it?

If one believed in fantasies, perhaps.

But concerning Satan: I would think that if Satan was working against Jehovah, Jehovah could permanently take him out in the first round. No?

And I'm curious as to where the Bible says god allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Is there a chapter and verse?

.

[William]

[Replying to Miles in post #2]

If one believed in fantasies, perhaps.

Then, why is the fantasy a logical and productive way in which to understand our world and our place in it?

But concerning Satan: I would think that if Satan was working against Jehovah, Jehovah could permanently take him out in the first round. No?

Given that the belief is otherwise, that is odd, I agree.

And I'm curious as to where the Bible says god allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Got a chapter and verse?

Nope.

What I think about it is similar to this;

Diogenes: The concept (and character) of 'Satan' is interesting and one that puzzles theologians. The OP assumes a strict monotheism, a lone creative God in the void of the universe. How would an anti-god, a force of evil intrude in a universe with an omnipotent God?

When I wrote the 1st post I pictured how I would react, how I would think if I was alone in the universe, alone for all eternity. That's where the 'Terror' of the title comes in. I think a lone God would almost welcome an adversary... anything but the terror of total and absolute solitude forever.

So the concept of an evil character, a rival god or force of evil is almost welcome. But this is problematic for monotheism.

Was God ever alone in the universe? Was Satan coexistent from the beginning? Were the angels?
Or did God create Satan? Did God create evil? If 'he' did, why? Does man have free will without Satan? Why would God knowingly introduce evil to the world, knowing the misery and agony of disease and cruelty? Or is God not God at all, but just one powerful force among many?
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[PolytheistWitch]

Satan is listed as the adversary. My impression was he listed your faults to God and if you lived by the law you would be fine.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2636]

YHVH informs me that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth and always has been.

It would appear that if Satan works for YHVH as a means of sorting out those who understand YHVH is the most high over all the Earth from those who believe otherwise, then this does not change the fact that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth.

Satan is not working FOR Jehovah. He is working against Him. He challenged Jehovah that he could prove that mankind could live without Him and was given the opportunity by Jehovah. Jehovah is the Most High but has allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Why else do you think the world is in such a mess? You think Jehovah rules this way? Satan is fast losing his challenge.

Q: Is this belief a logical and productive way in which to understand our world and our place in it?

After God originally created the heavens and earth as very good in the beginning, He did not abandon it to its own fate. He placed a caretaker and a host of subordinates to care for the earth. That caretaker was given dominion over the earth. It was the archangel Lucifer who became known as the devil or Satan after his rebellion. How does one know that Lucifer was the earthly ruler and caretaker? In the book of Luke, when Satan tempted Jesus for forty days in the desert, Satan offered Jesus power over all the kingdoms of the earth:

Luke 4:5-7
And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Lucifer must have been held in high esteem by God at some time to be given rule over the earth. He was working for God, until he rebelled. He has now become part of the learning process which man is involved with.

He rebelled because He lusted for more power:

Isaiah 14:12-14
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!... For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars (angels) of God... I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Due to his rebellion and neglect, the earth reached a state of without form, void, and dark:

Genesis 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

[William]

Satan is listed as the adversary. My impression was he listed your faults to God and if you lived by the law you would be fine.

You appear to be saying that Satan is an adversary to humans, but not to YHVH.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #5]

After YHVH originally created the heavens and earth as very good in the beginning, He did not abandon it to its own fate.

If it were 'very good' from the beginning, how do you explain the idea that something very good made by YHVH, could be "abandoned to its own fate"?
Do you believe that the universe - while a 'very good' creation, could not function on its own, because it was created to be attended to, by conscious attentive entities?

Due to his rebellion and neglect, the earth reached a state of without form, void, and dark:

Genesis 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #5]

After YHVH originally created the heavens and earth as very good in the beginning, He did not abandon it to its own fate.

If it were 'very good' from the beginning, how do you explain the idea that something very good made by YHVH, could be "abandoned to its own fate"?
Do you believe that the universe - while a 'very good' creation, could not function on its own, because it was created to be attended to, by conscious attentive entities?

I believe the earth was created for some purpose -- which probably included some form(s) of life.

After creating mankind, God commanded them to replenish and subdue the earth. The implication is that the earth requires some kind of upkeep or monitoring. There certainly are other things in the universe which could harm the earth.

"Abandoned to its own fate" was my own poor choice of words.

Lucifer and some of the angels under his control left the earth and warred in heaven:

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven:

My assumption is that they "abandoned" whatever functions they were assigned to perform on the earth during their war in heaven, and that is what resulted in the state of the earth as described in Genesis 1 verse 2:

Genesis 1:2
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep,

If the earth was created "very good" and "without form, empty, and dark" is not very good, then it probably came to be that way.

Sometime after its creation, some of the angels given power over the earth revolted and abandoned their post.

Perhaps that event is the cause of the earth's status in Genesis 1:2.

[Athetotheist]

Something I recently posted elsewhere:

"If you want to understand something, go to the place where it first appears."

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #8]

He placed a caretaker and a host of subordinates to care for the earth. That caretaker was given dominion over the earth.

My immediate concern with your theology is that there is no explanation as to how spirit beings are supposed to take care of a physical object, such as planet earth.
Also of note, Genesis One speaks about the beginning formation of the planet, and does not mention any state of the universe prior to that, which you are arguing for.

In the book of Luke, when Satan tempted Jesus for forty days in the desert, Satan offered Jesus power over all the kingdoms of the earth:

The Temptation of Christ, stories are questionable as being physical events - one is left wondering how spirit beings are supposed to caretake physical objects, turn physical rocks into physical bread, or catch the falling body of Jesus, let along tend to his physical needs once said temptation was finished.
Also, there is the problem that no mountain is tall enough to see all the kingdoms of the world, and - the earth being spherical would not allow for such a thing to occur, no matter how tall the mountain might be.

The best explanation for this story would be that it evolved after Jesus disappeared from Israel, and the various competing groups of Christians which arose after that, created their own stories and those stories ended up eventually becoming part of the overall religions mythology, once Rome united Christians. Such stories are best treated cautiously and tested accordingly through logic and sensibility until the questions they beg, are competently answered.