The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[JehovahsWitness]

Except YHVH shows us otherwise, by creating something which was incomplete.

DID GOD CREATE AN INCOMPLETE EARTH?

Scriturally the notion that God created an incomplete earth is completely false. The word perfect means complete, since everything Jehovahs does is perfect, by the end of his creative process it must, by definition be complete. Further to suggest God used humans to complete the planet earth means that God colloaborated with them as "co-creators" yet scripture is clear that God (not God and humans) created the earth

ISAIAH 45:18

he is God, and the one who formed the earth and made it, and he is the one who established

JW



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[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1361]

Scriturally the notion that YHVH created an incomplete earth is completely false.

Nope. It is scriptually clear that the Earth was unsubdued.

The word perfect means complete, since everything YHVHs does is perfect, by the end of his creative process it must, by definition be complete.

IF "very good" = "perfect" THEN the perfect thing created was unsubdued.

Therefore, IF "unsubdued" means 'not complete but perfect for what YHVH intends it to be' THEN it is perfect, even IF it were incomplete/needing subduing.

Further to suggest YHVH used humans to complete the planet earth means that YHVH colloaborated with them as "co-creators" yet scripture is clear that YHVH (not YHVH and humans) created the earth

Straw argument. I am not arguing that Humans helped YHVH create the Universe.
Any "co creation" interaction between YHVH and Humanity is endorsed/commissioned by YHVH as YHVH place humans upon the Earth.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1359]

Thus the commission to modify or change their environment to live comfortably by extending the paradise garden was not a commission to "improve" on perfection but simply to channel and direct its abundant resources for their convenience.

Great. I am glad this has been made clear.

The commission to subdue the Earth has to do with helping the planet with it's growth and to channel human energy for the convenience of humanity.

In that, it should be agreed that without humans, the planet would have nothing in which to "channel and direct its abundant resources" and so humans are part of what makes everything perfect.

No, prior to humans God provided spiritual bodied beings to fulfill that responsibility -- some of which abandoned their earthly estate:

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Mankind was then created and those who choose to do so will become everlasting spiritual bodied beings, replace the angels who rebelled against God, and rule over the earth forever under the leadership of Jesus Christ.

And they all will live happily ever after.

[JehovahsWitness]

... it is perfect, even IF it were incomplete..

Perfect yet incomplete would be a biblical oxymoron.

PERFECTION

The thought of perfection is expressed through Hebrew terms drawn from such verbs as ka·lalʹ (perfect [compare Eze 27:4]), sha·lamʹ (come to completion [compare Isa 60:20]), and ta·mamʹ (be completed, come to perfection [compare Ps 102:27; Isa 18:5]). In the Christian Greek Scriptures the words teʹlei·os (adjective), te·lei·oʹtes (noun), and te·lei·oʹo (verb) are used similarly, conveying such ideas as bringing to completeness or full measure - Insight on the scriptures Volume II p. 602

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SIN , PERFECTION , and ...THE RANSOM

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1364]

IF "very good" = "perfect" THEN the perfect thing created was unsubdued.

Therefore, IF "unsubdued" means 'not complete but perfect for what YHVH intends it to be' THEN it is perfect, even IF it were incomplete/needing subduing.

Perfect yet incomplete would be a biblical oxymoron.

That doesn't matter, as what YHVH declares "Very Good" even that it requires subduing, is perfect for that task. It was as complete as YHVH wanted it to be, in order that humans could subdue it.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1363]

Can you link Jude's claim with other biblical scripture?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1363]

Can you link Jude's claim with other biblical scripture?

Yes, here's that link:

II Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God...

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1363]

Can you link Jude's claim with other biblical scripture?

Yes, here's that link:

II Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God...

You answered a straw question, rather than the one I asked you.

If you are unable to link what Jude wrote, with other biblical storylines, then Jude has introduced some new thing into the mix re the supposed "prior to humans" period with YHVH supposedly providing "spiritual bodied beings" to fulfill that responsibility [subduing the Earth]-- some of which abandoned their earthly estate.

So in order to test the spirit of your argument, my question requires being answered.

If you are unable to answer my question, just say so. Otherwise I await your answer re clarification on;

your declaration;

prior to humans God provided spiritual bodied beings to fulfill that responsibility -- some of which abandoned their earthly estate:

Re: How To Bruise A Ghost

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1363]

Can you link Jude's claim with other biblical scripture?

Yes, here's that link:

II Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God...

You answered a straw question, rather than the one I asked you.

What's a "straw question"?

If you are unable to link what Jude wrote, with other biblical storylines, then Jude has introduced some new thing into the mix re the supposed "prior to humans" period with YHVH supposedly providing "spiritual bodied beings" to fulfill that responsibility [subduing the Earth]-- some of which abandoned their earthly estate.

So in order to test the spirit of your argument, my question requires being answered.

If you are unable to answer my question, just say so. Otherwise I await your answer re clarification on;

your declaration;

prior to humans God provided spiritual bodied beings to fulfill that responsibility -- some of which abandoned their earthly estate:

<===========================================>


The devil is identified as the ruler over the earth:

Luke 4:5-7
And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

As ruler over the earth, Satan and some angels under his authority chose to rebel against God. Why did he rebel? It was a grab for power:

Isaiah 14:12-14
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!... For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God... I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Stars is symbolism for "angels". So Satan did have angels under his command on the earth.

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Michael prevailed, and Satan and the other rebels were cast back down to the earth.

Revelation 12:4
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth

Being immortal, the rebellious angels cannot be killed, so they are restrained until judgment day:

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Christians of today will judge them:

I Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels?...

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1369]

You answered a straw question, rather than the one I asked you.

What's a "straw question"?

It is related to a strawman argument.

The straw question to which you answered would have been.

Q: What is given by inspiration of YHVH?

The devil is identified as the ruler over the earth:

You stated;

"prior to humans YHVH provided spiritual bodied beings to fulfill that responsibility -- some of which abandoned their earthly estate:"

Now you state that "'the devil' is identified as the ruler over the earth"

Q: How is that tied into the idea that some spiritual bodied beings abandoned their earthly estate?

Further to that;

Q: Is 'the devil' one such "spiritual bodied being"?

Luke 4:5-7
And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

As ruler over the earth, Satan and some angels under his authority chose to rebel against YHVH. Why did he rebel? It was a grab for power:

Isaiah 14:12-14
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!... For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of YHVH... I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like YHVH

Stars is symbolism for "angels". So Satan did have angels under his command on the earth.

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Michael prevailed, and Satan and the other rebels were cast back down to the earth.

Revelation 12:4
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth

Being immortal, the rebellious angels cannot be killed, so they are restrained until judgment day:

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Christians of today will judge them:

I Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels?...

A hodgepodge of scriptural references thrown together with your added narration does not tie together a storyline which shows that "prior to humans YHVH provided spiritual bodied beings to fulfill that responsibility -- some of which abandoned their earthly estate:" is actually what occurred.

Please explain the storyline events re these scattered verses you think show us that prior to humans YHVH provided spiritual bodied beings to fulfill that responsibility -- some of which abandoned their earthly estate, in the order that they happened so that at least we have something in which to examine and test the spirit of your interpretation with?

Thanks