The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1319]
I stand by what I wrote in post 1318. Let anyone looking on decide for themselves what makes sense.

Yes It's difficult to break away from what one has been taught all their life by those she respects. But you're doing so after being shown what the scriptures as inspired by God actually state. Did God get it wrong, or did your teachers get it wrong?

In posting 1318 you claimed that only "Jesus was said to be immortal."

The Bible states that Jesus is the only human who hath immortality as a future inheritance under the Old Testament Covenant between God and the Nation of Israel. The wages of sin is death, but He never sinned, thus His name is written in the Book of Life as an heir to everlasting life. He owns or hath that inheritance!

Romans 8:16-17
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ ...

Do you stand by your misquoting of the Bible?

[William]

This is the kingdom for which millions pray when they say.... " Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth ..."

You sound impressed.

I am.. all YHVHs works are impressive to me: setting up a world government (that is what THE KINGDOM OF YHVH is, a government) that will return this our planet earth to its idyllic condition...

The earth never had an 'idyllic condition' in which to 'return' to.

But it did. The Garden of Eden was idyllic condition.

Perhaps, but the rest of the Earth was not - it was wild and unruly...we know this to be the case, because we can witness what the Earth is actually like...Adam wouldn't have lasted more than a night in the Jungle of Amazon...and there is no sign of the Garden of Eden even existing anymore, in which to compare...but imagination fills in the gaps...

Adam was instructed to take care of it (like, you could say, a master gardener takes care of his garden today).

Indeed...even that Garden required attention least it too, became unruly and require subduing. That was the way it was designed - not to be in some idyllic condition which took care of itself.

The conflating between Adams condition and the Garden's condition is the cause of Christian Confusion - as it is more to the point we can agree - that Adam was more likely to have been in an idyllic condition, due to his being in the overall situation that he was.
He had a sweet spot on the face of The Earth, a GOD-Voice interacting with him, no meat eating animals to avoid, plenty of fruit and vegetables so he didn't have to eat the ones he had named, and even a Serpent to chat with as well.
And not a woman in sight!

That wasn't the case for those already working hard to subdue the earth, outside of the Garden of Eden.

And it was the desire of YHVH to have the Garden extended throughout the earth.

This was in the process of taking place, even before YHVH created Adam when YHVH created human beings through the process of evolution, as per The First Creation Story. [Gen 1]

Indeed, it has been taking place from the go-get and become a thing of itself within human communities - the Earth is more of an idyllic condition now that it evidently ever has been.

Just because Adam dropped the ball doesn't mean that the plans of YHVH were squelched for all time.

Just because the Abrahamic Religions have also "dropped the ball" doesn't mean the agenda of YHVH re The Earth - has been 'squelched' either - which signifies everything is as it should be -even as it changes day to day.

[myth-one.com]

The earth never had an 'idyllic condition' in which to 'return' to.

The exact words were "very good":

Genesis 1:31

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

[JehovahsWitness]

But it did. The Garden of Eden was idyllic condition.

Perhaps, but the rest of the Earth was not - it was wild and unruly...

Being wild doesn't negate being iddyllic; and what makes you think then earth outside of Eden was "unruly"?

UNRULY

disorderly and disruptive and not amenable to discipline* or control

* The very fact that the origin mandate was to control it, means'it was controlable,





Was the earth originally "idyllic" by Divine standards ?
viewtopic.php?p=1103630#p1103630

[William]

The earth never had an 'idyllic condition' in which to 'return' to.

The exact words were "very good":

Genesis 1:31

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

Correct.

However, I have been arguing that the human ideal of 'idyllic condition' is not to be conflated with YHVHs idea of Very Good, in that the paradise envisioned as a future [to us] event, did not start out in that way.

So the way that it did start out and continue, was "Very Good" re YHVH's Agenda.

It was "Good" enough to get the ball rolling, and gave something for humans to have to subdue.

Like purposeful Acromyrmex

[JehovahsWitness]

... I have been arguing that the human ideal of 'idyllic condition' is not to be conflated with YHVHs idea of Very Good ...

Indeed but various other scriptures which present Gods thoughts indicate the dictionary meaning of the word is a fitting description for how God did indeed view the earth.


Was the earth originally "idyllic" by Divine standards ?
viewtopic.php?p=1103630#p1103630

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1324]

But it did. The Garden of Eden was idyllic condition.

Perhaps, but the rest of the Earth was not - it was wild and unruly...

Being wild doesn't negate being iddyllic;

Adam was not created wild.

I am not arguing that being wild cannot be seen to be beautiful.

and what makes you think then earth outside of Eden was "unruly"?

The evidence.

The existence of Jungles.
The existence of flesh eating animals.
The existence of pain and suffering and death.

UNRULY

disorderly and disruptive and not amenable to discipline* or control
* The very fact that the origin mandate was to contril it, means'it was controlable,

You want to quibble on the best word to use? I would say that "unruly" is closer to the truth than like an idyll; extremely happy, peaceful, or picturesque place...and even to argue that there would have been pockets of the idyllic condition, here and there - does not equate to the whole Earth being in an "idyllic condition".

It was not.

[JehovahsWitness]

Adam was not created wild

That is a matter of opinion ...

WILD

(of an animal or plant) living or growing in the natural environment; not domesticated or cultivated.

Arguably he was as "wild"* as they come, naked and running with the animals in a natural (as in non-artificial) environment. I hazard a guess he first trimmed his beard and built a hammock when Eve came along ...

* not to be confused with savage

I am not arguing that being wild cannot be seen to be beautiful.

Thats very astute. And what does "idyllic" mean?

[JehovahsWitness]

and what makes you think then earth outside of Eden was "unruly"?

The evidence: The existence of Jungles.

UNRULY

disorderly and disruptive and not amenable to discipline* or control
* The very fact that the origin mandate was to contril it, means'it was controlable,

Are you suggesting jungles cannot be controlled? If so why would God commission the first coulple to go out and do just that? Today jungles do not cover the whole earth, indeed they have to be protected from being destriyed by man, so clearly their spread is containable (which is arguably what the original commission involved).

[JehovahsWitness]

The existence of flesh eating animals.
The existence of pain and suffering and death.

There is no indication such things were part of Gods original creation.





EARLY EARTH

How does the bible description of early earth fit with scientific facts?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 41#p836741

Was early earth a bad mistake?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 73#p836673

Could the earth be described as "idyllic" by the end if the 6TH creative day ?
viewtopic.php?p=1103630#p1103630

Does the bible teach the earth is FLAT?
viewtopic.php?p=1032310#p1032310

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

EARLY EARTH, THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS and ...THE GARDEN OF EDEN