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<--- Mr. nice guy 
Many critiques are rather liberal with the word "first"; it should be noted that this expression is rarely employed in the description of the resurrection events and even when it is, is not necessarily used in an absolute sense. It is not possible to give a definitive answer as to which events happened FIRST although an appraisal of all four gospels can provide a probable sequence of events. It's reported Jesus appeared on multiple occassions over a period of over a month to many different individuals and none of the accounts explicitly state nothing happened PRIOR (or FOLLOWING) or state the date and time of events, thus questions as to which event came "first" are largely redundant.
Sure, I'll have a go....
#What time did the women visit the tomb?
Matthew: "as it began to dawn" (28:1)Mark: "very early in the morning . . . at the rising of the sun" (16:2, KJV); "when the sun had risen" (NRSV); "just after sunrise" (NIV)
Luke: "very early in the morning" (24:1, KJV) "at early dawn" (NRSV)
John: "when it was yet dark" (20:1)#ANSWER: Harmonizing the narratives: All the women set out just before the dawn and arrived as the sun rose
#ANSWER: Evidently, they set out just before the dawn and arrived as the sun rose.
<< WAS IT DARK WHEN THE WOMEN ARRIVED AT THE TOMB?
http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... rum=jw#395
#Who were the women that visited the tomb?
Matthew: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (28:1)
Mark: Mary Magdalene, the mother of James, and Salome (16:1)
Luke: Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and other women (24:10)
John: Mary Magdalene (20:1)
#ANSWER: All of the above
# What was their purpose of the trip?
Matthew: to see the tomb (28:1)
Mark: had already seen the tomb (15:47), brought spices (16:1)
Luke: had already seen the tomb (23:55), brought spices (24:1)
John: the body had already been spiced before they arrived (19:39,40)
#ANSWER: All of the above
#Was the tomb open when the women arrived?
ANSWER : Yes, evidently the stone had already been rolled away by the time the women arrived. All FOUR (including Matthew) gospel accounts report the stone moved by the time the women arrived. While Matthew alone reports the accompanying "earthquake" like the others he attributes the moving of the stone to angelic activity. Matthew does not state the women witnessed this event.
CONTRARY TO THE OTHER GOSPEL ACCOUNTS DID MATTHEWS GOSPEL REPORT THAT THE STONE HAD NOT BEEN ROLLED AWAY?
ANSWER: No. Matthew 28:2 reads "And look! a great earthquake had taken place, for Jehovah’s angel had descended from heaven and had come and rolled away the stone, and he was sitting on it".
#Who was at the tomb when the women first arrived?
Matthew: One angel (28:2-7)
Mark: One young man (16:5)
Luke: Two men (24:4)
John: Two angels (20:12)
#ANSWER: Depends on who "they" are and what time is being referred to - there was a lot of coming and going that morning [/color]
# Where were these messengers (angels) situated?
Matthew: Angel sitting on the stone (28:2)
Mark: Young man sitting inside, on the right (16:5)
Luke: Two men standing inside (24:4)
John: Two angels sitting on each end of the bed (20:12)
#ANSWER: Depends on who "they" are and what time is being referred to - there was a lot of coming and going that morning Angels are not immobile; where they were depends on what moment of the day it was; and who was witnessing the event [/color]
What did the messenger(s) say?
* Matthew: "Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead: and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you." (28:5-7)
* Mark: "Be not afrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you." (16:6-7)
* Luke: "Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." (24:5-7)
* John: "Woman, why weepest thou?" (20:13)
#ANSWER: During the course of events ALL OF THE ABOVE
# What did the women DO [when they found an empty tomb]?
Mark 16:8 - The women were amazed and afraid, so they kept quiet
Matthew 28:6-8 - The women ran away with [fear and] great joy
Luke 24:9-12 - The women left the tomb and told the disciples
John 20:1-2 - Mary told the disciples that the body had been stolen
#ANSWER: All of the above The women* were initially instructed to tell ONLY the disciples so they did not stop on the way and explain what they had seen. Mark's reference to their telling noone may well refer to "noone" outside of those authorized to know, namely , the 11 Apostles. The believers as a group following Jesus instruction NOT to publicize his resurrection to "non-Christians" until a later date.
*It seems that Mary Magdalene dashed off to get Peter and John after seeing the tomb empty, leaving her companions at the tombside.
* as per the definition aboveNOTE: There is little or no reference to sequence in many of the resurrection narratives , any suggestion that they are therefore contradictory* is a "strawman" argument, best suited to those that have not actually read the references provided (further detail please see the FORWARD at the top of the post)
When Mary returned from the tomb, did she know Jesus had been resurrected?
ANSWER: Initially, no. Mary left the group as soon as they found an empty tomb and only returned later with Peter and John. Staying behind after those two had inspected the empty tomb she encounters Jesus alone.
* Matthew: NO (Mat 28:7-8) Note: Mary is not mentioned specifically as still being in the group of women WHEN they are addressed by the angels.
* Mark: NO (16:10,11) NOTE: It is generally accepted that neither conclusions were in Marks original text. Even taking the words into account, however Mk 16:10 says nothing of WHAT Mary initally reported. or WHEN the Apostles heard from her that Jesus had been ressurected (see above)
* Luke: No : (24:6-9,23) NOTE that Luke 24:8,9 is clearly summarizing the outcome of all the events since in verse nine he says the women reported {quote} "to the eleven and to all the rest {unquote}. At no point the intitial comings and goings were all the woment with ALL the Apostles AND all the rest of the disciples. Luke is summarizing the net outcome of all the reports from all the women named in verse 10 since by the end of the morning Mary could add her encouter to those of the other women.
* John: No : John 20:2 shows that intially Mary only reported to Peter and John, and was not aware of the resurrection until her second visit to the tomb with those two (see above).
# What did Peter and John see when they visited the tomb?
ANSWER: The linen strips that had been used to wrap the body (including the head)
LUKE 24:12 : But Peter got up and ran to the tomb, and stooping forward, he saw only the linen cloths.
JOHN 20: 6b , 7: ..the linen cloths lying there. 7 The cloth that had been on his head was not lying with the other cloth bands but was rolled up in a place by itself. 8
There is no discrepency: the headpiece would also have been made out of linen so "linen strips / cloth bands" covers everything they saw. John by refering to "the other cloths" gives a de facto acknowledgement that the headband was also cloth. He simply adds the interesting detail of how the stripsof clothh were arranged.
# Where and when did Jesus first appear?
Matthew 28:8-9 - first** appears near his tomb
Mark 16:14-15 - appears to Mary Magdalena but it's not clear where
Luke 24:13-15 - first** appears near Emmaus, several miles from Jerusalem
John 20:13-14 - first** appears at his tomb
[*] Matthew does not use the term "near" the scripture only indicates somewhere between the tombsite and where the disciples were located]
#ANSWER: Probably appeared first** to the women (excluding Mary Magdalene) somehere between the tomb site and where the Apostles Peter and John were at the time, some time on Sunday morning.
Please note that none of the accounts explicitly state exact times and none of the individual accounts state that this was his "first"** appearance or that Jesus had not appeared to anyone previously (see note ** See above
When did Mary "first" see Jesus?
* Matthew: Before she returned to the disciples (28:9) - no mention of Mary
* Mark: Before she returned to the disciples (16:9,10) - does not sequence event in relation to any other.
* John: After she returned to the disciples (20:2,14) At John 20:2 Mary does NOT report that she has seen Jesus only {quote} "They have taken away the Lord out of the memorial tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.{unquote} clearly at that point she had not seen Jesus. Verse 14 therefore is obviously a LATER visit.
# How did Jesus first** behave?
Matthew 28:9 - Jesus lets Mary Magdalene and another Mary hold his feet
Mark 16:14-15 - Jesus commissions the eleven to preach the gospel
John 20:17 - Jesus forbids Mary to touch him because he hasn’t ascended to heaven yet, but a week later he lets Thomas touch him anyway
#ANSWER: Possibly either "the Women" (excuding Mary) or Mary Magdalene by herself saw Jesus first**. The commission recorded in Mark was likely given that given Galilee (where he initially instructed his disciples to go) so it is extremely unlikely this is the first thing he did.
# Did Jesus let anyone touch him?
Matthew 28:9 - Jesus lets Mary Magdalene and another Mary hold his feet
Mark 16:14-15 - Jesus commissions the eleven to preach the gospel
John 20:17 - Jesus forbids Mary to touch him because he hasn’t ascended to heaven yet, but a week later he lets Thomas touch him anyway
#ANSWER: Yes. The greek expression used by John regarding Mary is literally "to cling" and is employed in the continuous tense ("stop clinging to me"), so overcome by emotion Mary was permitted to "touch" the resurrected Jesus but evidently she didn't want to let him go, which she has to. Jesus' words indicate she couldn't keep him with her, since his time on earth would be temporary. The above passages clearly show Jesus let all his disciples touch his resurrected body.
Did the women tell what happened?
Yes... EVENTUALLY. They were instructed to tell the Apostles and they would have obeyed that instruction. Mark does not say HOW LONG they kept silent about the matter, but logically it would have been on for the duration of the trip back to find the Apostles, not declaring to all assunder that Jesus had been resurrected BEFORE they got over their fear and reported the events to the proper authority (The Apostles).Mark gives no indication they never spoke to a man for the rest of their lives about the matter but links their "strong emotion" to their silence. No doubt they had calmed down when they got to Peter's house.
- Mark 16 verse 7 reports that the women were instructed to "... go, tell his disciples and Peter, ... 8 So when they came out they fled from the memorial tomb, for trembling and strong emotion were gripping them. And they told nobody anything, for they were in fear."
"But he led them out as far a Bethany" [end quote] so we don't know if he (Luke) is referring to Jesus final encounter with this disciples (in Chap 24:50-53) or another such occassion.
Luke does not say that the Bethany event was "after dinner"; his reference to "the eleven" may well have been used in as a title rather than a reference to how many people where in the room (since evidently on the occassion when Cleopas and his companion report their encounter, Thomas was not present). Mark also gives no distinct timeframe for his words (16:14-19). [It should be noted that there is considerable doubt as to whether the conclusion of Mark (16:9 - 19) were part of the original text.]
[*] The women start out just before dawn (Sunday morning) and got there as the sun was rising (they being all the women including Mary Magdeline)
[*] On the way the wonder how they will roll the stone away inaware that the during the night the earthh had trembled and the stone had been rolled by an angel, terrifying the guards who had fled while the angel sat on the stone watching them run.
[*] Arriving at the tomb some hours later the women find the stone rolled away and Mary, perhaps looking inside and seeing it empty immediately leaves the group running back to tell Peter and John
[*] An angel then appears to the remaining "the women" (Mary is not specifically mentioned in connection with this appearance; her absence during this event would explain why she initially reports only the missing body not angelic appearances or the ressurection message to Peter and John). The angel invites the remaining women to see inside the tomb, empty except for a second angel. The angels tell the women of the ressurection and sends them to inform the disciples.
[*] On their way to deliver this message, it is these women (EXCLUDING Mary) who meet Jesus himself(28:8 .).
[*] Meanwhile Mary reports the empty tomb to John and Peter and her conclusion that the body has been stolen. All three head back to inspect. When Mary gets back with Peter and John they inspect the tomb, empty save cor the linen that had wrapped the body. The two mdn men leave perplexed. Mary, however stays behind alone weeping.
[*] Looking again inside the tomb she sees two men (angels) who ask her why she is so distressed. Turning from them she sees a third man who she mistakes for the gardener who is in fact the resurrected Jesus.
[*]She is sent to add her report to those of the other women
THE MENJesus is subsequenly reported as appearing to his disciples over a period of 40 days, in at least 3 towns and dozens of locations to various individuals and groups (sized up to 500 in number ) .
[*] Instead of obeying the women and going north, the Apostles remain near Jerusalem, necessitating further appearance. He repeats his initial instruction to return north where he will further meet with them.
[*] Up north in Galilee there are several meetings over the course of a month. With a final "public" appearance of upwardd of 500 disciples. He commissions them to spead the good news.
[*] Jesus final meeting is in private back near Jerusalem (after his Galilean appearances) with only the 11 faithful Apostles present. He tells them to stay in Jerusalem until they receieve holy spirit.
To learn more please fo to other posts related to...
BIBLICAL SEQUENCING, RESSURECTION CHRONOLOGY and ...BIBLICAL INERRANCY
INDEX
When was the Passover meal?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 32#p893932
When is the Passover "New Moon"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 96#p911296
What were Jesus last words?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p933181
Did the sun stop shining the day Jesus died?
viewtopic.php?p=1008274#p1008274
Were corpes moved or bought back to life the day Jesus was executed?
viewtopic.php?p=775237#p775237
Was there a zombie apocalypse the day Jesus died ?
viewtopic.php?p=775340#p775340
Why did Jesus feel abandonned at his death?
viewtopic.php?p=933256#p933256
When (what time) did the women visit the tomb? (this post)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 82#p986082
Why did the women visit the tomb
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 41#p926941
Who were the women that visited Jesus tomb?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 31#p908331
How many women visted Jesus' tomb
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 31#p908331
Was the tomb open when they arrived?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 35#p908335
Why did Mary and the others not see the angel sitting on the stone?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 88#p986388
Could Mary Magdalene have left the group of women before their angelic encounter?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 35#p986635
WHERE were the angels when the women first arrived?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 23#p986523
Could the angels have possibly moved from one spot to another in the course of their interaction with the women?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 66#p987266
How can Mary's various testimonies be explained?
viewtopic.php?p=1058230#p1058230
How many messengers (angels) were present when the women arrived?
viewtopic.php?p=1016247#p1016247
Where were these messengers (angels) situated when the women arrived?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p926581
Who was at the tomb when the women arrived?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 36#p908336
What did the messenger(s) say?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 57#p926557
Why is Mary's name included in Luke's summary of events if she wasn't with the women when they met the angels?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 90#p986390
Did the women tell anyone what happened?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 95#p908395
Did the women report seeing Jesus or angels ( Cleopas)?
viewtopic.php?p=1039084#p1039084
When Mary returned from the tomb, did she know Jesus had been resurrected?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 68#p926568
When did Mary first see Jesus?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 69#p926569
How can Mary's various testimonies be explained?
viewtopic.php?p=1058230#p1058230
Could Jesus be touched after the resurrection?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 06#p908706
After the women, to whom did Jesus "first" appear?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 74#p926574
Where and when did Jesus first appear to his disciples?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 76#p926576
Did the disciples doubt?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 40#p927240
Did the APOSTLES believe the two men (Cleopus & his companion)?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 71#p926571
What happened at the appearance?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 77#p926577
Did the Apostles travel to Galilee on the first Sunday?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 77#p927277
Did Jesus stay on earth for a while?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 79#p926579
Why is there no mention in the gospels of 500 eyewitnesses of the risen Jesus?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 16#p970816
Was "Great Commission" given uniquely to the eleven Apostles?
viewtopic.php?p=937795#p937795
Where did the ascension take place?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 61#p926561
PAST EASTER CHALLENGES
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 61#p890661
Extended list
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 71#p375671
Full list & explanations:
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 42#p357142
To learn more please go to posts related to...
BIBLICAL SEQUENCING, INERRANCY and ...THE RESSURECTION EVENTS
