Can you convince the logic of atheists in your spiritual explanations?

[sridatta]

The logic of atheists is based on perception (Pratyaksha Pramana), which was propagated by the sage Charvaka. Perception means the knowledge derived from the observation with the naked eyes. Infact in the logic (Tarka Sastra) all the means of knowledge are based on perception only. In the inference (Anumana) also, the fire on the hill is inferred by its smoke. But the relationship between the fire and smoke is perceived with the naked eyes only. Similarly other means of knowledge are also based on the perception only. Thus Charvaka forms the basic of the entire logic and without logic there is no knowledge.

The statement that the God is above logic must be proved only by perception. The divine miracles performed by the human form of Lord prove that there is a power above the logic. These miracles are seen by the naked eyes. The atheists must be allowed to prove whether the miracles are simply magic tricks. When they cannot prove, they must accept the existence of super power above the logic. If they do not accept this they are contradicting their own basis, which is the perception. The divine miracles are experienced by the devotees and the experience cannot be contradicted. If the experience is contradicted, the experience of the atheists is also contradicted. Therefore atheists must be open-minded and should not be conservative. If they are conservative they have no right to criticize the religious conservatism.

The theory of Vedas and Bhagavath Gita never contradicts the perception and therefore the logic of atheists becomes the basis of the spiritual knowledge. The Lord comes in human form and this human form is perceived by the naked eyes. Even the miracles performed by demons establish the existence of super power. Therefore to convince the atheists the miracles of the Lord are not necessary. When they are convinced about the existence of the Super power (Maya), the possessor of the Super Power, the Lord, coming in human form must be also accepted because the form is seen by the naked eyes. The salvation is breakage of the bonds in this world. Since the bonds of this world exist based on the perception, the salvation is also existing based on the perception. Since the family members and the money are perceived by the eyes, the bonds with them are also perceived. Thus the salvation (Moksha) must be accepted by the atheists. A single bond with the human form of the Lord is called ‘Saayujya’ or ‘Kaivalya’.

Since the human form is perceived, Sayujya or Kaivalya is also perceived and must be accepted by the atheists. The Bliss is derived by the devotee from the divine knowledge of the human form of the Lord. Therefore the Bliss is also true according to atheists. Thus the goal, the means to please the Lord (Sadhana) and the fruit of Sadhana (Moksha and Kaivalya) are perceived and exist in this world itself.

Veda says ‘Yat Saakshat Aparokshaat’, ‘Pratyagatmana Maikshat’ which mean that the Lord in human form is perceived by the naked eyes. Veda also says ‘Ihachet Avedeet’, which means that everything is true as seen in this world itself. This is called ‘Jeevanmukthi’, which means attaining the salvation while one is alive and not after death. The salvation after the death is not true because that has no basis of perception. Thus if the atheists are little bit patient and leave their aggressive nature of criticism, they are best fitted in the true spiritual knowledge of Vedas. In fact Swami Vidyaranya included the philosophy of Charvaka in his book as one of the logical philosophies (Darsanaas).

[Purple Knight]

The statement that the God is above logic must be proved only by perception. The divine miracles performed by the human form of Lord prove that there is a power above the logic. These miracles are seen by the naked eyes. The atheists must be allowed to prove whether the miracles are simply magic tricks. When they cannot prove, they must accept the existence of super power above the logic. If they do not accept this they are contradicting their own basis, which is the perception.

Let's say for the sake of argument that I'm mentally handicapped, and people keep fooling me. Does this mean I have to believe them simply because I can't figure out how they're doing it?

The divine miracles are experienced by the devotees and the experience cannot be contradicted. If the experience is contradicted, the experience of the atheists is also contradicted. Therefore atheists must be open-minded and should not be conservative. If they are conservative they have no right to criticize the religious conservatism.

This much is true. We all have our own perceptions and if you saw something, I can't tell you that you didn't. But that doesn't become truth to me until I see it. You might have seen a bright red raven. You tell me about a raven as crimson as a phoenix alight. I don't get to tell you that you didn't see it, but at the same time, you don't get to tell me that I did. This is, I think, saying the same thing you said another way, but applying it to both parties fully. It's about personal truth. It's not going to be exactly the same between two people who have different experiences - different data - to go on.

If you saw God I'm not going to tell you, no you didn't, you must have hallucinated. But your revelation is for you, not for me, because you saw it and I didn't. When I see the red raven, I will make my own judgment about what it is and what it means, and my senses, and ultimate truth.

[sridatta]

The statement that the God is above logic must be proved only by perception. The divine miracles performed by the human form of Lord prove that there is a power above the logic. These miracles are seen by the naked eyes. The atheists must be allowed to prove whether the miracles are simply magic tricks. When they cannot prove, they must accept the existence of super power above the logic. If they do not accept this they are contradicting their own basis, which is the perception.

Let's say for the sake of argument that I'm mentally handicapped, and people keep fooling me. Does this mean I have to believe them simply because I can't figure out how they're doing it?

The divine miracles are experienced by the devotees and the experience cannot be contradicted. If the experience is contradicted, the experience of the atheists is also contradicted. Therefore atheists must be open-minded and should not be conservative. If they are conservative they have no right to criticize the religious conservatism.

This much is true. We all have our own perceptions and if you saw something, I can't tell you that you didn't. But that doesn't become truth to me until I see it. You might have seen a bright red raven. You tell me about a raven as crimson as a phoenix alight. I don't get to tell you that you didn't see it, but at the same time, you don't get to tell me that I did. This is, I think, saying the same thing you said another way, but applying it to both parties fully. It's about personal truth. It's not going to be exactly the same between two people who have different experiences - different data - to go on.

If you saw God I'm not going to tell you, no you didn't, you must have hallucinated. But your revelation is for you, not for me, because you saw it and I didn't. When I see the red raven, I will make my own judgment about what it is and what it means, and my senses, and ultimate truth.

This is the reason why God comes to this world in human form to preach and uplift us in the form of Rama, Krishna, Jesus,Shankara, Buddha, Sai Baba etc and they also perform miracles which you can see by your naked eye.


You can see some materializations in the above video

[Miles]

You can see some materializations in the above video

Good grief, have you never heard of cheap parlor tricks? This is stuff one can find in books like Magic For Boys And Girls or Magic Tricks For Kids.

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[sridatta]

You can see some materializations in the above video

Good grief, have you never heard of cheap parlor tricks? This is stuff one can find in books like Magic For Boys And Girls or Magic Tricks For Kids.

.

There are several miracles taking place in this world, which are available to us for our naked eyes. For example, if you search YOUTUBE videos you can find a person by name Satyanarayana Baba sitting for the past 23 yrs., in one place without food and water. Several people are surrounding him always. His address is near Rayagadh district in the state of Chattisgarrrh in India.

You can easily get this address from google search. Why don’t you go there and observe him thoroughly so that you can believe perfectly the existence of unimaginable power and the possessor of such power called unimaginable God or Parabrahman, who is the source of unimaginable events called miracles.

You can also find several videos containing the miracles of Shri Satya Sai Baba performed in public for further support of the concept. The true incidents of re-birth frequently appearing in this world and also the post death experience of some people are certainly proving that there is something positive in the background of the spiritual line.

By the above step, you have come to the stage of believing the existence of the unimaginable God.

Now, you can realize that God, who is beyond space and time and is unimaginable, exists really and that He is the real source of these unimaginable events called miracles about which we are unable to give a logical explanation. God being the creator of all these souls is the divine Father of the souls, who is always trying to guide the souls in the true spiritual path. This is the main reason for the exhibition of miracles here by God. By this realization, you have recognized the real goal of human life and you must start in the true spiritual line to attain the grace of God.