Who has seen God?

[Rose2020]

Apparently over 70 people in one go.
This is according to Exodus chapter 24, verses 9 - 12.
So is this clear, that those elders along with Moses actually saw the face of God and even ate and drank in His presence?

I had thought only Moses got that close to God who took great precautions earlier about this.

[JehovahsWitness]

Nobody, including Moses, has seen literally seen God. The elders saw a VISION [Hebrew : CHAZAH]of God; Moses saw Gods glory.







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[Miles]

Nobody, including Moses, has seen literally seen God. The elders saw a VISION [Hebrew : CHAZAH]of God; Moses saw Gods glory.

Interesting interpretation, however, while god does say no one can see his face without then dying

Exodus 33:20
20 But you cannot see my face. No one can see me and continue to live.”

If the interpretation of chazah meant "envisioned in visions," meaning not to see with one's actual eyes, but in the mind, there would be no need to make the remark that upon seeing god, "god did not destroy them." This only makes sense if the 70 did see god with there actual eyes.

Exodus 24:911
9 Then Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and the 70 elders of Israel went up the mountain. 10 On the mountain, these men saw the God of Israel. He was standing on something that looked like blue sapphires, as clear as the sky! 11 All the leaders of Israel saw God, but God did not destroy them. They all ate and drank together.

It doesn't seem reasonable at all that god would purposely put irrelevant remarks in his book.

.

[JehovahsWitness]

Exodus 24:911
9 Then Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and the 70 elders of Israel went up the mountain. 10 On the mountain, these men saw the God of Israel. He was standing on something that looked like blue sapphires, as clear as the sky! 11 All the leaders of Israel saw God, but God did not destroy them. They all ate and drank together.

The comment is not redundent as the context indicates their being spared was significant.



The 70 had along with the rest of the nation been instructed to keep their distance on pain of death (Ex 19:20-25). After having validated the covenant (see Ex 24: 6-8), the 70 elders, representing the nation as a whole, entered into a new relationship with YHWH (Jehovah). Only then could they approach God and not be killed ( compare Ex 24:1 and verse 9). So only at this point could they do, what they had previouly been told would kill them, namely appoach the the holy ground on the mountain, rather than stay at a distance.

[myth-one.com]

The Bible states that anyone see God today:

Matthew 25:34-40

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was ahungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee ahungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

[Miles]

Exodus 24:911
9 Then Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and the 70 elders of Israel went up the mountain. 10 On the mountain, these men saw the God of Israel. He was standing on something that looked like blue sapphires, as clear as the sky! 11 All the leaders of Israel saw God, but God did not destroy them. They all ate and drank together.

The comment is not redundent as the context indicates their being spared was significant.

Never said it was redundant. I said it would be irrelevant if, in fact, they had not actually seen god's face with their own eyes.

"It doesn't seem reasonable at all that god would purposely put irrelevant remarks in his book."

The 70 had along with the rest of the nation been instructed to keep their distance on pain of death (Ex 19:20-25). After having validated the covenant (see Ex 24: 6-8), the 70 elders, representing the nation as a whole, entered into a new relationship with YHWH (Jehovah). Only then could they approach God and not be killed ( compare Ex 24:1 and verse 9). So only at this point could they do, what they had previouly been told would kill them, namely appoach the the holy ground on the mountain, rather than stay at a distance.

So what? Your contention was that

"Nobody, including Moses, has seen literally seen God. The elders saw a VISION [Hebrew : CHAZAH]of God; Moses saw Gods glory."

And if this was true there would have had no reason to remark, "All the leaders of Israel saw God, but God did not destroy them.

Noting that "chazah" can also mean

behold
gaze
gloat
look
looked
saw
see
seeing
seen
sees

All of which add up to 45 uses compared to "envisioned in visions" single usage.

.

[JehovahsWitness]

"It doesn't seem reasonable at all that god would purposely put irrelevant remarks in his book."

I don't see the the remark as being irrelevant.



The 70 had along with the rest of the nation been instructed to keep their distance on pain of death (Ex 19:20-25). After having validated the covenant (see Ex 24: 6-8), the 70 elders, representing the nation as a whole, entered into a new relationship with YHWH (Jehovah). Only then could they approach God and not be killed ( compare Ex 24:1 and verse 9). So only at this point could they do, what they had previouly been told would kill them, namely appoach the the holy ground on the mountain, rather than stay at a distance. In short their new standing allowed them to get close enough to "see" God without being killed




JW

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[Rose2020]

I am afraid I see it as stated. They saw God, ate and drank in His presence and he didn't destroy them. Even an intriguing detail that his feet were upon a seeming 'pavement of sapphires'.


That is absolutely clear. Yet does not make sense to me as there is contradiction with other parts of the Bible where it is clear that no man can look upon the face of God and be allowed to live.

[JehovahsWitness]

I am afraid I see it as stated. They saw God, ate and drank in His presence and he didn't destroy them. Even an intriguing detail that his feet were upon a seeming 'pavement of sapphires'.


That is absolutely clear. Yet does not make sense to me as there is contradiction with other parts of the Bible where it is clear that no man can look upon the face of God and be allowed to live.

So your interpretation results in a clear contradiction; the alternative (which is contextually and linguistically sound) does not. There is no reason for you to be confused, if you hold to your present understanding God was either mistaken, lying or the bible is not to be trusted.


Enjoy!


JW



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[Rose2020]

I do totally believe the Bible is the word of God. All scripture is spirit inspired. Everything in it will have a good reason, not apparent immediately. I just want to know what that is in this bit.

I presume God chose to show Himself to those 70 people. I just wonder why?