In The Beginning...

[William]

Question For Debate:



Resources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... imulation/
https://builtin.com/hardware/simulation-theory
https://www.simulation-argument.com/

[The Tanager]

[Replying to William in post #20]

Do you see a difference between a VR game and a painting? Are those different types of human creations?

[William]

[Replying to William in post #20]

Do you see a difference between a VR game and a painting? Are those different types of human creations?

Re our discussion on the subject so far, why do you ask?

[The Tanager]

[Replying to William in post #20]

Do you see a difference between a VR game and a painting? Are those different types of human creations?

Re our discussion on the subject so far, why do you ask?

Because you wanted me to clarify what I was asking before and I want to try to clear up some of your terms to see if I just need to drop that previous question or how best I can re-word it.

[William]

[Replying to William in post #20]

Do you see a difference between a VR game and a painting? Are those different types of human creations?

Re our discussion on the subject so far, why do you ask?

Because you wanted me to clarify what I was asking before and I want to try to clear up some of your terms to see if I just need to drop that previous question or how best I can re-word it.

Okay. Which terms are you having difficulty with?

The difference between a painting of a galaxy and a Simulation of a Galaxy is that one cannot play the game within a painting of a galaxy, but only within a simulation of a galaxy.

[The Tanager]

Okay. Which terms are you having difficulty with?

The difference between a painting of a galaxy and a Simulation of a Galaxy is that one cannot play the game within a painting of a galaxy, but only within a simulation of a galaxy.

Are both of these, simulations and paintings, kinds of creations?

[William]

Okay. Which terms are you having difficulty with?

The difference between a painting of a galaxy and a Simulation of a Galaxy is that one cannot play the game within a painting of a galaxy, but only within a simulation of a galaxy.

Are both of these, simulations and paintings, kinds of creations?

They are expressions of intelligence.

[The Tanager]

Okay, but that isn't answering my question. Do you believe simulations and paintings are different kinds of creation?

[William]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #27]

Do you believe simulations and paintings are different kinds of creation?

I don't understand your question as it has no framework supporting it. This is the same as with the other question you asked;

If that is true, then why are the Body Set’s impressions (that are then interpreted) a type of simulated creation rather than a non-simulated creation?

and I asked you for an example as to what YOU meant by "non-simulated creation".

I can't really go anywhere with you on this until you explain yourself.

"Are we living in a creation" has already been agreed on by us together.

"What kind of simulation" we exist within can be determined through the study of it.

You will need to explain your questions - perhaps in a paragraph more than a simple line might be more helpful.

Having said as much, at the risk of a misunderstanding, I think that the gist of what you are asking has to do with a painting not being a simulation but a creation and therefore there is a difference between simulations and creations.

If that is what you are trying to convey, I am not saying that the universe is a painting.

Anything within a simulation is part of the simulation. A painting would not act as a simulation even if it were simulating a scene - just as say - the creating of a photograph is not the same type of simulation as the creation of the universe is.

I would say the obvious difference between a created painting and a created universe is that the universe is interactive and moves.

That does not mean that a painting [or a movie et al] isn't a kind of simulation.

The universe is obviously a different kind of creation than a painting.
The universe is obviously a different kind of simulation than a painting.

[The Tanager]

Having said as much, at the risk of a misunderstanding, I think that the gist of what you are asking has to do with a painting not being a simulation but a creation and therefore there is a difference between simulations and creations.

Exactly correct.

If that is what you are trying to convey, I am not saying that the universe is a painting.

Anything within a simulation is part of the simulation. A painting would not act as a simulation even if it were simulating a scene - just as say - the creating of a photograph is not the same type of simulation as the creation of the universe is.

I would say the obvious difference between a created painting and a created universe is that the universe is interactive and moves.

That does not mean that a painting [or a movie et al] isn't a kind of simulation.

The universe is obviously a different kind of creation than a painting.
The universe is obviously a different kind of simulation than a painting.

You believe creation and simulation are synonyms, different terms that pick out the same concept, right? The question I'm focusing in on, to make sure we don't talk past each other, is: "Is X a creation/simulation?" When X is replaced with "painting," you are okay with saying a painting is a creation and, in the same way, that a painting is a simulation. The confusing part for me comes when X is replaced with "simulation" (like VR). Here, I think, you are saying a simulation is a creation and, in the same way, that a simulation is a simulation. If that is what you are saying, then we have two senses of simulation. We have a particular instance of a creation/simulation (the painting or the simulation) as well as the general category of creation/simulation. It is less confusing to have different terms for different concepts. Thus, I think the general category should only be referred to as "creation," while simulation is a particular instance or kind of creation...a sub-category, where not all creations are simulations. Otherwise, one could equivocate on the two different meanings of "simulation" without knowing it, which would lead to irrational conclusions.

[William]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #29]

I think the general category should only be referred to as "creation," while simulation is a particular instance or kind of creation...a sub-category, where not all creations are simulations. Otherwise, one could equivocate on the two different meanings of "simulation" without knowing it, which would lead to irrational conclusions.

Now you should be able to give an example of what it is you are saying re the difference between what you understand to be a non-simulated creation and what you understand to be a simulated creation.