The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[Brightfame52]

mythone

This death is the death which is the wages for our sins! So Jesus' death on the cross did not pay the wages for anyone's sins.

This is blatantly untrue ! He paid the wages of death for His Sheep Jn 10

[myth-one.com]

mythone

This death is the death which is the wages for our sins! So Jesus' death on the cross did not pay the wages for anyone's sins.

This is blatantly untrue ! He paid the wages of death for His Sheep Jn 10

So how does that work?

Jesus died His appointed death.

Christians continue to die their appointed deaths after Jesus died.

What changed?

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #572]

I have been posting how it works in this thread for a while now.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #572]

I have been posting how it works in this thread for a while now.

Yes, you've stated that "He paid the wages of death for His Sheep."

But His sheep continue to die.

If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus paid the wages of death for our sins, why do believers still die?

The wages for our sins is obviously the second death, not our appointed first death:

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Jesus' appointed death saved no one from their appointed deaths:

Hebrews 9:27
And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

If it is appointed by God that all men must die once, then the first death is unavoidable!

If it is unavoidable, then it is not the result of sinning, nor the wages of our sins.

The wages for our sins is the second permanent death. So Jesus did not pay the wages for your sins.

That is not how atonement works!

What did Jesus benefit from living a sinless human life under the Old Testament Covenant between mankind and God?

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #574]

I have explained things to you. If you cant grasp them, thats not for you to learn.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #574]

I have explained things to you. If you cant grasp them, thats not for you to learn.

No, you claimed that "He (Jesus) paid the wages of death for His Sheep."

But you cannot explain why Believers still die daily if Jesus died for our sins -- as you claim.

The man Jesus died -- as every other man or woman will die:

Hebrews 9:27
And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

If His death was unavoidable because He was born as a man, how does His death save anyone?

Can you name one human believer who has not died their appointed first death because Jesus died for them?

[Eddie Ramos]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #574]

I have explained things to you. If you cant grasp them, thats not for you to learn.

No, you claimed that "He (Jesus) paid the wages of death for His Sheep."

But you cannot explain why Believers still die daily if Jesus died for our sins -- as you claim.

The man Jesus died -- as every other man or woman will die:

Hebrews 9:27
And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

If His death was unavoidable because He was born as a man, how does His death save anyone?

Can you name one human believer who has not died their appointed first death because Jesus died for them?

It really doesn't matter how many times someone will explain spiritual truths from the Bible when those truths cannot be seen by the recipient. You continue to try and press a point about man's appointment to die once and completely misunderstand (as I have previously tried to explain in other threads) that Hebrews 9:27 is not referring to the physical body, but it's referring to man's soul. This is why you ignore the various biblical texts that declare that Jesus bore the sins of his people as if though no one had showed them to you, or as if though by your logic, those verses don't belong in the Bible. But truth is not arrived at using your method of biblical interpretation. To prove my point (again), I will provide a biblical answer to your last question only to show everyone that you will once again reject it because you hold your logic to a higher regard than the scriptures.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV 1900)
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Enoch, the seventh generation from Adam, (who was physically alive on this earth) did not see physical death, but was translated (changed). He therefore is a spiritual picture of the true believers who will be alive at the last day and will not sleep (physically die), but will be changed. If you look at Enoch's age when he was caught up to God and changed, you'll see that he was 365 years old. And because God is a perfect God who is in control of the length of days, weeks, months and years, he has appointed the number 365 to represent a full year. Well, God's complete salvation program is likened to a year.

Luke 4:18–19 (KJV 1900)
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

This means that at the end of this spiritual year of the Lord, or God's salvation program, that it will be followed by the catching up of God's people (i.e. those who, like Enoch, walk with God). So, just as Enoch was taken up, and we know that he did not see physical death (Heb 11:5), so too, the scriptures assure us that we shall not all physically die, but, like Enoch, we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:51–53 (KJV 1900)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Philippians 3:20–21 (KJV 1900)
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

[myth-one.com]

You continue to try and press a point about man's appointment to die once and completely misunderstand (as I have previously tried to explain in other threads) that Hebrews 9:27 is not referring to the physical body, but it's referring to man's soul.

What is the difference between the physical body and the "soul?"

[Eddie Ramos]

You continue to try and press a point about man's appointment to die once and completely misunderstand (as I have previously tried to explain in other threads) that Hebrews 9:27 is not referring to the physical body, but it's referring to man's soul.

What is the difference between the physical body and the "soul?"

I have already tried explaining that to you multiple times in various threads, which has resulted in you ignoring my scriptures (as you just did again here with my last reply to your previous question) because you'd rather deal with doctrine according to your logic and because you'd rather be right at any cost, rather than humbling yourself to the scriptures when they contradict you.

But feel free to let me know when you would be willing to start examining each and every passage given to you, and I will be happy to help. You can start with Hebrews 11:5 which contradicts your doctrine.

[myth-one.com]

You continue to try and press a point about man's appointment to die once and completely misunderstand (as I have previously tried to explain in other threads) that Hebrews 9:27 is not referring to the physical body, but it's referring to man's soul.

What is the difference between the physical body and the "soul?"

I have already tried explaining that to you multiple times in various threads, which has resulted in you ignoring my scriptures (as you just did again here with my last reply to your previous question) because you'd rather deal with doctrine according to your logic and because you'd rather be right at any cost, rather than humbling yourself to the scriptures when they contradict you.

But feel free to let me know when you would be willing to start examining each and every passage given to you, and I will be happy to help. You can start with Hebrews 11:5 which contradicts your doctrine.

Genesis 5:23
And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

Enoch had no more than 365 years. Is he living breathing now?

And you don't own the scriptures. They are not your scriptures. So when you change the wording of the scriptures, you should have to justify why you did so.

Since you claim that Hebrews 9:27 means that every "soul" is appointed to die -- as opposed to every "man", then you need to define your definition of the word "soul."

Doing so requires less effort that dodging the request.

<===========================>

What is the difference between your physical body and the "soul?"