Yahweh's Witnesses?

[historia]

Picking up a topic from an earlier thread: According to scholars, the ancient Hebrew word for God, YHWH, was most likely vocalized as "Yahweh," while the term "Jehovah" is a late-Medieval rendering that transposes the vowels for Adonai into YHWH.

Question for debate: Should Jehovah's Witnesses stop using the term "Jehovah" and instead use the term "Yahweh?"

[historia]

Perhaps, if all the other Christians stopped using the term Jesus

I'm not sure I understand your point here.

Are you saying that Jehovah's Witnesses practice should be determined by what other Christians do?

I'm saying we use English bible names with a J- the same as other Christians do.

But, why does it matter what other Christians do? Unless you're saying that Jehovah's Witnesses practice should be determined by what other Christians do.

[JehovahsWitness]

But, why does it matter what other Christians do? ...

Because some people do things with good reason following good logic and bible principle. If they do then it is beneficial to point such good logic and bible principle so that it can be imitated. Note what the Apostle Paul said

1 CORINTHIANS 11 verse 1

You are to imitate me, just as I imitate Christ

.

The principle being, if someone is doing something right, take note.


The logic (that most people recognise) is that names exist to identify someone and that purpose can be achieved regardless of pronunciation (which varies according to the language). As long as the basic principle of transliteration or translation are respected, and the individual concerned expresses no objection or preference, then Pierre or Peter or Pedro, the point is to know who we are talking about.

The bible principle is that first century Jews, including Jesus himself, were not speakkng the ancient Hebrew of Moses, yet Jesus seemed to understand that the original pronunciation of words, even the words in the Holy texts took a back seat to being understood by his audience.

Jehovahs Witnesses recognise good sense and solid bible principle whereever it be found, even if that be with non-witnesses.

[historia]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #12]

Okay, so in that case, I think it's pretty safe to say that "Yahweh" is now the preferred term used by most Christians and also non-Christians. It's used pretty consistently across all languages, and has the best claim to being the most accurate rendering.

Would you not agree, then, that there are many good reasons to use "Yahweh" instead of "Jehovah," which at this point has significantly declined in usage.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #12]

Okay, so in that case, I think it's pretty safe to say that "Yahweh" is now the preferred term used by most Christians and also non-Christians.

Did I say to adopt the preferred term of the majority or did I say to respect good logic and bible principle?

...it is beneficial to point such good logic and bible principle so that it can be imitated.

The principle being, that people understand who you are talking about: Are the average Joe and Josephine on the street more familiar with the form Yahweh or Jehovah ?

The fact of the matter is ( the English pronunciation " Jehovah" has a very long and well established history that is very easily recognisable in the English language and remains (if I am not mistaken) the form in the King James Bible (one of the oldest and most influencial bible translations). Yahweh may presently be the new kid on the block and be form adopted by most modern day English translations but (and Jehovah's Witnesses are arguably the best placed to know this) if you were to say to the average man or woman on the street "YAHWEH said "this or that" in the bible" ...they would probably ask who Yahweh is.

...the point is to know who we are talking about.

In short "Yahweh" has about 400 years catching up to do before it can hope to be as established in the English speaking world as the form JEHOVAH.




JW

[2timothy316]

Those that attend Hebrew speaking congregations are called עדי־יהוה

Interesting. Sounds like these modern Hebrew-speaking Jehovah's Witnesses have just adapted the English (or maybe German) pronunciation of "Jehovah."

Now should ALL Witnesses go by this pronunciation? No. Why? Jehovah is source of speech and tells people through angels the Good News to all in their own language. This would even include a translation of His name into their language. (Rev. 14:6.)

But the predominant pronunciation in English is now "Yahweh." In fact, that same pronunciation is now used across most languages. It's also widely considered to be more accurate.

So why not use it?

Use of the name Jehovah in English is far more common and recognized than Yahweh. Other names like Jesus are not changed to Yeshua. You don't see many "Yeshua saves" billboards. The important part is not accuracy, otherwise the correct pronunciation would be in the Bible to clear all doubt. The important part is when I say name Jehovah, does the person know who I'm talking about? (Psalms 83:18) If Yahweh did that better then we would be using it. Yet clearly Almighty God is not concerned with how His name is pronounced seeing that there are MANY ways to say His name in different languages but yet everyone who truly seeks Him knows who He is.

[historia]

Are the average Joe and Josephine on the street more familiar with the form Yahweh or Jehovah ?

Yahweh.

The fact of the matter is ( the English pronunciation " Jehovah" has a very long and well established history that is very easily recognisable in the English language and remains (if I am not mistaken) the form in the King James Bible (one of the oldest and most influencial bible translations). Yahweh may presently be the new kid on the block and be form adopted by most modern day English translations

Are you saying that your primary evidence for which form people are most familiar with is the fact that "Jehovah" appears in the King James version?

In short "Yahweh" has about 400 years catching up to do before it can hope to be as established in the English speaking world as the form JEHOVAH.

That's not how language works, otherwise the older forms of terms would never be supplanted by newer ones.

[historia]

Use of the name Jehovah in English is far more common and recognized than Yahweh.

Please provide evidence to support this claim.

[JehovahsWitness]

Are the average Joe and Josephine on the street more familiar with the form Yahweh or Jehovah ?

Yahweh.

The fact of the matter is ( the English pronunciation " Jehovah" has a very long and well established history that is very easily recognisable in the English language and remains (if I am not mistaken) the form in the King James Bible (one of the oldest and most influencial bible translations). Yahweh may presently be the new kid on the block and be form adopted by most modern day English translations

Are you saying that your primary evidence for which form people are most familiar with is the fact that "Jehovah" appears in the King James version?

My primary evidence for which form people are most familiar with is 40 years of speaking with ordinary people on the street and calling on them at their homes along with our collective experience as such of BILLIONS of hours of interacting with people on this topic. Not in academia, not on the selective hothouse religious forums and certainly not in the corridors of institutes of higher theological "learning" but with joe and josephine average, and I can assure you they havent gotten the memo of "Yahweh over Jehovah" yet. Probably because the people that advocate it do so on marginal forums in the virtual world and have never given them a call.


As for the King James Bible it is arguably one of the most influential piece of literature as regard to the English lanhuage and not to be scoffed at (not implying that you did) when it comes to how our language developed. Its use of the form JEHOVAH (IEHOVA) is one of the reasons the form is so familiar to English speakers (and beyond) especially in traditionally protestant lands and why it has found its way into hymnes and onto monuments all over Europe as well as the countries their missionaries proselytized.

[historia]

My primary evidence for which form people are most familiar with is 40 years of speaking with ordinary people on the street and calling on them at their homes

Do you have survey data to support that anecdote?

I can assure you they havent gotten the memo of "Yahweh over Jehovah" yet. Probably because the people that advocate it do so on marginal forums in the virtual world and have never given them a call.

I see "Yahweh" used all the time by Christian speakers and in popular Christian publications -- rarely, if ever, do I see "Jehovah" anymore -- so we don't need to imagine that it is only being "advocated" for on "marginal forums in the virtual world," or just in academia. Its use is widespread.

As for the King James Bible it is arguably one of the most influential piece of literature as regard to the English lanhuage and not to be scoffed at (not implying that you did) when it comes to how our language developed.

I agree completely, but its influence is not absolute. Many of its terms and phrases have been supplanted by newer ones. We can see that on this particular question by looking at term frequency analysis in books over the past 100 years.

[Tcg]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #12]

Okay, so in that case, I think it's pretty safe to say that "Yahweh" is now the preferred term used by most Christians and also non-Christians. It's used pretty consistently across all languages, and has the best claim to being the most accurate rendering.

Would you not agree, then, that there are many good reasons to use "Yahweh" instead of "Jehovah," which at this point has significantly declined in usage.

The most commonly used name/title is most undoubtedly God. Beyond that, one has to wonder what the big deal is. Are we to conclude that God is confused about who one is praying to if they use the wrong name? It's much ado about nothing.


Tcg