The Mark of The Beast

[William]

What is it - a literal or symbolic thing?

In another thread, there is debate on whether prophesy on the antichrist is being fulfilled...one of the items re that is "The Mark of The Beast" and there seem to be two main branches of thinking about that, from Christian groups.

There doesn't appear to be dispute about its purpose, which is to allow access to the marketplace - to allow those who have it - to buy and sell food clothing shelter and health. To be a part of any society which operates through the economy of a marketplace to provide such things to people in those societies.

If it is a literal mark on right hand or forehead, then is there any evidence of that currently happening in the marketplace?

If it is a symbolic mark on right hand or forehead, what would that be, and is there any evidence of that currently happening in the marketplace?

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #10]

Apparently without the mark one cannot access the goods

According to our interpretation that is not necessarily true.

That is understandable for those who wish to be seen as set apart from the majority - but who still utilize that which effectively does not set them apart at all.

I get it. Jehovahs Witness interpretation of the mark of the beast has to be that way in order to - at least - give an appearance of being different from everyone else, even whilst using the same marketplace as everyone else.

[Purple Knight]

If it is a symbolic mark on right hand or forehead, what would that be, and is there any evidence of that currently happening in the marketplace?

It could easily mean the correct ideology. If you dare speak against it, you're banned from everything, lose your job, and no one buys your goods.

(This is difficult for me because I share that ideology, but I don't think it's valuable to bully people into submission by denying them access to goods and services. I am against the right to refuse service. Yes, to anyone. Ask the Nazi to remove his swastika if you like, but he is entitled to your goods at the same price as everyone else, because the Jew he despises is entitled to his goods in the same way. If you can't do this, your business does not belong in the public square.)

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #12]

It could easily mean the correct ideology. If you dare speak against it, you're banned from everything, lose your job, and no one buys your goods.

This seems logical. This would be to say, that regardless of ones spoken allegiance to something other than this, as long as one is partaking in it, one is showing by ones actions that one will serve it rather than be expelled from it.

(This is difficult for me because I share that ideology, but I don't think it's valuable to bully people into submission by denying them access to goods and services.

But is it really bullying? What is to stop folk from creating their own system?

I am against the right to refuse service. Yes, to anyone. Ask the Nazi to remove his swastika if you like, but he is entitled to your goods at the same price as everyone else, because the Jew he despises is entitled to his goods in the same way.

Even with the stand-outs, what is being referred to here is a system which has been going on for centuries and the Nazi as well as the Jew and everyone else, has been forced by popular consensus to buy and sell [and loan] to the 'it may not be perfect, but it is all we have' system...and those who try to create a society outside of that norm - for the most part - eventually fail.

It is what the people want, even that the people themselves are educated to want only that which is on offer.

If you can't do this, your business does not belong in the public square.)

Which is pretty much the attitude of those benefiting off of the system..."like it or lump it"...

Put your mark on the dotted line...sign here...

[Purple Knight]

But is it really bullying? What is to stop folk from creating their own system?

It's really bullying. You can use things you supposedly ought to be able to do, to bully people. Example: Vote Trump, get dumped.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-e ... it-n545746

This is bullying. It's a combination of only 1) your right to romantically entangle with who you like and to break it off when it suits you and 2) your right to ask that your boyfriend do what you want him to.

But combine those things and it's bullying. Just like combining free speech and your right to beg for money can result in blackmail. If you're going to tell secrets, tell them. Don't extort people. If you're going to break up with your boyfriend, break up with him. Don't extort his vote.

Even with the stand-outs, what is being referred to here is a system which has been going on for centuries and the Nazi as well as the Jew and everyone else, has been forced by popular consensus to buy and sell [and loan] to the 'it may not be perfect, but it is all we have' system...and those who try to create a society outside of that norm - for the most part - eventually fail.

It is what the people want, even that the people themselves are educated to want only that which is on offer.

Which is pretty much the attitude of those benefiting off of the system..."like it or lump it"...

Put your mark on the dotted line...sign here...

The benefit of forcing people into a system where they tolerate other ideologies at least insofar as they, if they own a business in the public square, must buy and sell to them... is that everyone has true freedom of belief. The guarantee that you can believe what you like and not be denied goods and services is valuable. It's not only valuable because the dominant opinion can be wrong; it's also valuable because nobody wants to live in a society where they can't think as they please.

Freedom of belief on paper doesn't mean anything. "These beliefs, or the government shoots you," is equivalent to, "these beliefs, or be denied goods and services and starve."

The Nazi and the Jew will have momentary discomfort in being forced to serve one another, but ultimately both will be protected from the other one, who wants him to starve/die/otherwise go away.

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #14]

Freedom of belief seems to be oxymoron/contradiction.

The Nazi and the Jew will have momentary discomfort in being forced to serve one another, but ultimately both will be protected from the other one, who wants him to starve/die/otherwise go away.

It appears what you are saying is that the Mark of the Beast serves a higher purpose than Jewish or Nationalist [and general] beliefs.

Am I understanding you correctly here?

[Purple Knight]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #14]

Freedom of belief seems to be oxymoron/contradiction.

The government has to protect it. It's an oxymoron, because it's one of those things that you have to destroy in some measure to protect in any measure (by not allowing people to refuse service) but I don't say the world that restriction creates is moral or consistent, I just say it's a great place to live.

The Nazi and the Jew will have momentary discomfort in being forced to serve one another, but ultimately both will be protected from the other one, who wants him to starve/die/otherwise go away.

It appears what you are saying is that the Mark of the Beast serves a higher purpose than Jewish or Nationalist [and general] beliefs.

Am I understanding you correctly here?

It could, if employed properly - if the only real restriction was that to do business in the public square you must agree to serve everyone and treat them equally regardless of whether you dislike them or not.

The real free market, I always said, was just going to be a scramble to race for dominance of one's own ideology and "voluntarily" exclude all other ideologies from the public square, creating a de facto mark of the beast where you simply have to be that ideology to do business. And that world sucks. It's no more free than a brutal dictatorship is. The idea that unless the people doing this to you are wearing sashes that say "The Government" it's actually wonderful beautiful freedom... is a laughable absurdity.

I'm actually quite smug about it now because in the 90's I was arguing against conservatives who thought it was hateful and immoral to force anyone to serve anyone, and now it is largely the conservative ideology that sees itself excluded, banned, and walled off from the marketplace. I won't say they got what they deserved because I genuinely believe no one deserves that, which is why I think the government needs to protect against it. But I do hope they learned a lesson and had to eat their shoes after they put their feet in their mouths by saying nobody should be forced to serve anybody.

[William]

I reached a point where it was apparent to me that The Mark of The Beast was ones Personal Signature , because - regardless of the system being operated, the PS crosses those differences.

The beast represents those who agree together that they are in a 'herd', are Great Apes [basically animals/beastial of nature and activity] and okay about wearing/being associated with, a number. The Marketplace prospered and "Economy' boomed to the tune of said activity, and has become the most protected thing in the world...