The Biblical God's conduct and culpability

[Compassionist]

[Compassionist]

Things I want to do but can't do due to lack of ability:
1. Go back in time and prevent all suffering and death and injustice...

By killing everything? I think what you say would mean that evil people would not have even this life.

I am clearly not a free agent with a free will.

That is sad. In that case it would be best, if I would speak directly to the one who determines what you say.

...All our choices are determined by our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. Only an all-knowing and all-powerful being has free will. ...

I have free will and I am guilty for all of my own actions and choices.

We live in a reality full of suffering, injustice and deaths. If the Biblical God made this reality then he is guilty of failing to prevent all the suffering, injustice and deaths. It's possible that the Biblical God is imaginary and evil instead of being real and evil.

Interesting thing is that by what the Bible tells, everything was good when God created it. Then people decided to reject God, and God allowed it and we were expelled to this godless world. I think people have chosen own suffering.

...What is more, God even makes evil: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7, The Bible (KJV). ...

Evil is actually nothing, it is like darkness or emptiness, lack of good. When God creates evil, it happens by letting people to be without Him (good). And I think it is what people want. Would it be good, if God would force you to be good?

...I define free will as a will that is free to do anything ...

I think that is wrong and stupid definition. Free will means person is free to want what ever he wants. It does not mean everything also goes as he wants. Free will is not the same as omnipotence.

My plan to prevent all suffering, injustice and deaths does not involve killing anything. It involves making all living things omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent and giving every living thing an infinite number of universes each.

Just because you claim that you have free will, it does not mean you do. Your choices are determined by your genes, environments, nutrients and experiences.

Omniscience and omnipotence are pre-requisites for free will as I defined it.

What is your definition of free will? What makes your definition more accurate than my definition of free will? Please see https://www.britannica.com/topic/free-will We don't have free will. We have constrained will. It is an evidence-based conclusion.

You claimed that everything was good when God created it. I understand your statement comes from the Bible. I don't know if the Bible is true or false. How can it be true when it is so full of contradictions and inaccuracies? The Bible is full of horrific acts by the Biblical God. If the Bible is true, then the Biblical God is real and evil. Please see http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html and https://evilbible.com

[TRANSPONDER]

I agree with 1213. We have Free Will (that is the faculty of choice, even if there are determining reasons for them down to Nano - level. The mechanic of choice are what they are and enable the instinct of compassion and empathy. He and I share this and that is free will as distinct from having none.

The definition of free will being the ability to do anything and having no constraints is not the same thing - having some free will does not require having total free will.

[Compassionist]

I agree with 1213. We have Free Will (that is the faculty of choice, even if there are determining reasons for them down to Nano - level. The mechanic of choice are what they are and enable the instinct of compassion and empathy. He and I share this and that is free will as distinct from having none.

The definition of free will being the ability to do anything and having no constraints is not the same thing - having some free will does not require having total free will.

We have constrained will, not free will.

[TRANSPONDER]

Yes, but it is still under the free will heading rather than no free will. It is still free will even if not total free will. Making it a subset (constrained free will) does not make it No free will.

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #65]

Yes, you are a victim.

According to my connect with the "Cosmic Mind", I am informed that I am 'nobodies victim - ever." I agree with the assessment, even while understanding your own propensity to think of yourself [and everyone else] as victims.

Even the fact that you are in denial about being a victim is inevitable.

Given the information I receive, I agree - it is inevitable - I deny it, because it is not true. So far you have shown me no evidence to the contrary.

Did you choose to conceive yourself?

According to the information I have received, yes - I did choose to enter this experiential reality - even knowing prior to doing so, that I would lose all memory of my prior existence as a result.

Did you choose your genes?

Yes. I chose everything.

Can you do any of the tasks I asked you to do? No. You are a victim from conception to death. As are all living things.

I chose to be part of this experiential reality, even knowing that I would not be able to do the tasks you asked me to do, and that this experiential reality would be short-lived.

I define free will as a will that is free to do anything and is not determined by any variables. Such free will does not exist in biological organisms. Only an all-knowing and all-powerful being has free will.

Please explain the reason behind your belief that an omniscient and omnipotent being has free will.

[William]

[brunumb]

I think that is a bad interpretation when Bible clearly shows that pharaohs mind changed every time the plague ended. If God influenced to pharaoh, it was by ending the plagues, not by some evil mind altering trick.

To me, it is clear that the intention of the plagues was to intimidate the pharaoh and make him capitulate. When it worked God, intervened to make the pharaoh change his mind thus causing God to unleash more devastation. Please quote the passages that clearly show that the pharaoh's mind changed as a result of a plague ending.

It is not directly told in the Bible how God hardened pharaohs heart. But, it is clear from the actions. First cause was obviously that God made Israelites to ask freedom (Exodus 7). Pharaoh didn't like that and made their work even harder from the previous. There is nothing indicating that God did something more or some evil way altered pharaoh's mind against his will.

I'm sorry but that doesn't address the issue at all. You made a clear statement:

.....pharaohs mind changed every time the plague ended. If God influenced to pharaoh, it was by ending the plagues, not by some evil mind altering trick.

Please justify that. This bit: "First cause was obviously that God made Israelites to ask freedom (Exodus 7)" has nothing to do with the issue at hand. You seem to be taking the approach of flinging mud at the barn and hoping some will stick. As it is, you are make less and less sense.

[brunumb]

Interesting thing is that by what the Bible tells, everything was good when God created it. Then people decided to reject God, and God allowed it and we were expelled to this godless world. I think people have chosen own suffering.

Not even close. Two humans allegedly committed the most heinous crime of disobedience that involved no harm to anyone, and as a consequence God rejected them and inflicted upon them and their descendants the worst possible retribution.

[1213]

My plan to prevent all suffering, injustice and deaths does not involve killing anything. It involves making all living things omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent and giving every living thing an infinite number of universes each.

So, you would not give freedom. I think that is quite evil.

Just because you claim that you have free will, it does not mean you do. Your choices are determined by your genes, environments, nutrients and experiences.

Can you prove that? What is the evidence for that my choices are determined by genes,...?

...
What is your definition of free will? What makes your definition more accurate than my definition of free will?

Free will means person can freely wish or desire anything he wants, because:

"...not determined by anything beyond its own nature or being : choosing or capable of choosing for itself..."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free

"...to have a wish or desire..."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/will

[1213]