Satan, the devil, and lucifer

[achilles12604]

MrMalone wrote the following here.

Christian Theology on Satan is misunderstood. Satan, Lucifer and the Devil are not the same things; yes even according to the Bible.

I'm creating this thread to investigate this claim. Are these three creatures one in the same or different according to scripture?

[acamp1]

Satan was also influenced by the myths of Lucifer and Prometheus, which were influenced by the still-older myth of Azazel (see the "Origin of Satan" thread).

So, yes, we've got a merging of Azazel/Lucifer/Prometheus with Ahriman.

The most fascinating thing to me about all these myths (the Garden story as well) is the implication that knowledge is inherently evil and/or corrupting.

[Greatest I Am]

The OT portrayed both blessings and curses as having come from God. Christianity - with its central notion of an all-good God - needed a way to justify the existence of evil... hence the transformation of Satan from generic adversary to stand-alone force in opposition to God.

If so, why would God blemish His perfect reality when there was no need to. What reason could He possibly have for the ruin of His Perfection.

Again, there are no such things as witches, demons, angels and fish that spit out men after three days. Come on now. Lets get with it.

Regards
DL

[Easyrider]

Again, there are no such things as witches, demons, angels and fish that spit out men after three days. Come on now. Lets get with it.

Regards
DL

The Word of God says otherwise.

[Metatron]

Again, there are no such things as witches, demons, angels and fish that spit out men after three days. Come on now. Lets get with it.

Regards
DL

The Word of God says otherwise.

So you believe that all of the above (including the fish that spits out men in three days) in fact exist? Any evidence for any of them outside of scripture?

Incidently, how did Jonah survive for three days in some fish's (or whale's) digestive tract?

[McCulloch]

Again, there are no such things as witches, demons, angels and fish that spit out men after three days. Come on now. Lets get with it.

The Word of God says otherwise.

Correction, the Bible says otherwise. It has not been demonstrated that the Bible is the Word of God.

[Greatest I Am]

Again, there are no such things as witches, demons, angels and fish that spit out men after three days. Come on now. Lets get with it.

The Word of God says otherwise.

Correction, the Bible says otherwise. It has not been demonstrated that the Bible is the Word of God.

There is no question as to these terms being used in the Bible.
The question is their meaning.

The talking snake is not a talking snake. What does it represent.
The fish that spits out men after three days. Is not a fish.

I repeat, lets get with it.

Regards
DL

[jasonm1848]

There is no merging. the goat man was right. the hebrew word is hehlel' best translation is "shining one" greek its ho heosphoros or "bringer of dawn" and latin its lucifer or "light bearer". the verse is better read "O how you have fallen from heaven". he was just mocking the king who though himself a god. this has nothing to do with satan. it doesn't even make sense when applied to satan. also it doesn't make sense to use the latin word for a hebrew scripture. satan, the devil, the original serpent, the dragon,.... these are all the same dude. but lucifer, the morning star, azazel,... these all have no contextual or literal reference to him.

lest this debate get bogged down with the classic "is the bible gods word" or the "are the events in the bible literal" debate please squash that crap or start a new debate thread. but if you want a wrench thrown then throw i shall. almost everything even written in hebrew is vague and relatively useless. the big fish is versed as god appointed or anointed a big fish to swallow the dude. the bible six times references the leviathan five of which involve water literally the word sea. but sea in hebrew can also be used for river and leviathan more than one kind of animal. two whale skeletons are on display in Lebanon so though rare they were in the Mediterranean. but in at least one instance the "sea" is better context'd to river and crocodile instead of whale. the behemoth could be an elephant or rhino. they knew Persians why not. and if you believe god able to send a fish to eat someone why cant he provide and air bubble and antacids to keep the guy alive. arguing hebrew scripture is like banging your head against a brick wall just to find out if brain damage or skull fracture comes first. if you believe it enough to argue it then you can't really argue it. the wrench of 2 cents has been cast. the kings to thee.

[ken1burton]

Truth is not always what we want it to be. But what can be searched out in Scripture if it be so. This is looking where we do not want to look, and seeing what we do not want to look at.

Because of the mass of verses which speak of the Devil, Satan, Dragon, Lucifer, Etc. I will touch the main points. I will use a lot of Scriptural references (KJV), For it is by Scripture which shows what is, What is not. God uses that which is despised:

1-Corinthians 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea , and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

This will cover a lot of Ground, Please bear with me till the entire concepts can be shown, then search the Scriptures if these things be so.

Matthew 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Isaiah 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

God allows Himself to be commanded concerning the works of His hands, He makes the Blind and the Dumb, and Jesus commands His Father and the man is healed.

The Devil is God’s Name, It means the “Living God”, God hides Himself. Till we learn to love our enemy, God uses a similitude for Himself to appear as our enemy. When we come to Christ we have a lot of anger, God gives us a person to put that anger upon. Till we grow past our hating others.

So when Jesus in John 8:44 told the Jews, “You are of your Father the Devil.” Unbeknown to Jesus, He was really saying “You are Sons of the Living God.”

Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Isaiah 45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

God uses Similitudes (Hosea 12:10) And He uses them a lot.

There is Context to the Different names, And in that context is the names used.

Satan is a name for The Word of God. In that Context. So Satan (God’s Word) desired to sift Peter, and Peter was Jewish or of the House of Israel.

Amos 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

In Job, The Conversation between God and Satan is a Similitude. God telling Satan He moved Him against Job without a cause:

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

God’s own Words is what moved Him against Job. Cause or not:

Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

So when Satan takes the lives of Job’s Children, and that which belonged to Job, Job answered, and God later said Job spoke that which was right about God:

Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

Scripture shows God provoked David to number the Children of Israel:

2-Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1-Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

This seems like a strange story, Why David numbering the people was counted as sin in the first place, When David was later given a choice of three different punishments for doing it. The reason is because David is trying to be the one who fulfills a prophecy, as being the ONE who is able to do this:

Numbers 23:10 Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his!

See now why David trying to Number them was seen as sin in God’s eyes? It was Satan or God’s word which provoked David. Or was as a temptation to be the One God was saying would be able to do it.

When Jesus prayed for Peter, Then it appeared that Jesus was talking to Peter, But Jesus spoke the words God gave Him, and it was God speaking TO JESUS, THROUGH JESUS.

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

So it is God’s word that desires to sift Peter as Amos 9:9 shows, Jesus is praying for Peter’s strength, However God’s word also says He will smite the Shepherd and the Sheep will be scattered, and Peter has to flee also.

Peter also has to curse Jesus, Not just deny Jesus and use cursing, But to Curse Jesus the third time He denied Him, so the Cock Crowing fulfills Prophecy. Praying for Peter’s strength goes against what God is doing here.

Ecclesiastes 10:20 Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and curse not the rich in thy bedchamber: for a bird of the air shall carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter.

So God speaking to Jesus Through Jesus:


Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Jesus not Peter is whom God has laid all iniquity on. He is the OFFENCE.

The day of the Cross is seen as 4 6-hour periods in the first of three pictures. God double twice to establish His words. Sunset to Midnight is old Heaven, Midnight to Sunrise is Old Earth, Sunrise to noon is New Earth, Noon to Sunset is New Heaven. Heaven and earth (old) will flee from His Face seen as the Face of a Man on the third beast with 6-wings which is Sunrise to noon.

There are 144 with Judas, seen as a wall in Revelation 21:17. They have the Cubit added to their stature or reached Angel status, they are the Angels given Charge over Jesus. They are multiplied by 1,000 in Deuteronomy 1:11. They are the 144,000 in Revelation Chapter 14. Virgins, men travailing with Child as Jeremiah saw, Birth of the Body of Christ the day of the Cross seen in Psalms 2:6/7.

Revelation 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

The 144 are also seen as the Goats, the Goats seen as His Battle Horse in Zechariah 10:3/6 and as if not cast off, The Goats seen told to depart into the Fire prepared for the Devil and His angels or the day of the Cross with Jesus. Jesus is the Head or above the first 6-hours from Sunset to Midnight.

Goats seen as Hairs in Song of Solomon 4:1, so all the Hairs of His Head are numbered. 144,000 seen sealed in Revelation is sealed from seeing Jesus is the Messiah in Isaiah 29:10/12.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus takes away sin as Daniel 9:24 shows, So God can dwell with man, Immanuel or God with Us.

So the Angels gather all things which offend, (Jesus) from one end of heaven to the other, From one end of the Earth to the Other, Jesus is also the Elect gathered the same way. As the day seen in three different pictures of the same time. One measure of wheat for a penny and three measures of Barley for a penny, or the day seen three ways also.

As Jesus has to allow Himself to be taken, He must “Cast Yourself Down”, It is God the Father of all mankind who is asking Jesus to do this. The day of the Cross is as a house built, the name of the House is the “Wilderness” Where Jesus was taken for the temptation. Jesus is then given 42 Months to continue, Goes back and shows His servants (Disciples) what must shortly come to pass.

Command the Stones to be made Bread is to fulfill Scripture. Fall down and Worship Me is to allow Yourself to die. Because this is looking at the day of the Cross, and God’s eyes are purer then to look upon Iniquity and Jesus has to have all iniquity placed on Him by God’s will, He says “Get Thee Hence” or you can not look on Me when I take this sin. Remember, It is God’s words Jesus is saying, Jesus does not need to understand what they really mean.

Jesus seen as blind in Isaiah 42:19/21 “Who is Blind as He who is perfect.”

When given power to continue 42 Months, He opens His mouth in Blaspheme (He does not know the Devil is God’s Holy Name.”

NONE is a name for Jesus, NONE declareth, NONE showeth, When I called, NONE did Answer, NONE can by any means redeem His Brother, There is NONE beside Me.

God give NONE a Surname:

Isaiah 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

God had to Hide His Face from Jesus to fulfill Scripture, as Jesus has to go into hell and be there the third day when God sets Jesus and those in the pit wherein is no water free (Zechariah 9:11)

Psalms 143:7 Hear me speedily, O LORD: my spirit faileth: hide not thy face from me, lest I be like unto them that go down into the pit.

When Jesus cried unto God from the Cross, God has to answer Jesus with Silence which is an Answer, And there is Silence the Space of half an hour as Jesus cries “My God, My God, Why hast Thou forsaken Me?”

Psalms 28:1 Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.

With all the interlocking of Scripture this is getting a bit long, I will post this, and if not cut off from the Forum (Some of this gets offensive to many) I will post more. Truth is Truth like it or not. And what most of Christianity sees as Evil Beings is what God has used to hide things which is, With things which are not.

God bless your searching.

Ken

[ken1burton]

I will try not to repeat too much, But because of how Scripture interlocks and one concept supports another, please bear with me.

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now

Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

The day of the Cross is made as Darkness, It is the Day of the Lord which John was in the spirit on when He saw the Revelations of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Jesus to show unto His Servants. And He did during the 42 Months given to continue before going to the Lord’s Day or Day of the Cross.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

2-Peter 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

A more sure word of Prophecy then seeing Jesus transfigured on the Mount. When the DAY STAR arise in your hearts.

The Jewish Holy Scripture copy I have, and the Revived Standard Version list DAY STAR as Isaiah 14:12's Name instead of Lucifer. Peter did not show where that Prophecy was. But when You see it is Jesus in hell in Isaiah 14:12. It adds a lot to knowing the Gates of hell did not stop the love and Mercy of God from setting the Prisoners free:

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Jesus is the One who Revives them (Hosea 6:2) And is with them when God set them in the pit where in is no water free (Zechariah 9:11)

So when those in hell are move to met Him at His Coming, it is Jesus who is Coming to them.

Isaiah 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

The day is made as 7 days by Isaiah 30:26 which will only fit the day of the Cross. The Second picture is as 2 12-hour periods, as two witnesses in Revelation, Seeing Jesus in hell, The second picture seen as a desert. The Children of Israel now likened to the Dust. And the Dust is the Serpent’s meat as Jesus consumes them into the Body of Christ.

Because Isaiah 14 is looking at the Second day, and they do not understand they must wait till the third day to be raised up, They ask why He has not set His prisoners free?

Just a thought: How in the world a Concept of an Evil being as the Devil which many people think is true, would be in Charge of Hell is kind of funny in a way, They do not make a prisoner the warden. So those who would think they could reign in hell are not thinking very hard.

They would have cause to wonder how Jesus became as they are. Not understanding that “With His stripes we are healed.” Then for the overspreading of Abomination or all future sins on Jesus He died a sinner at Golgotha which got Him the keys to death and hell all get when they die a sinner.

So Jesus telling the Disciples where He was going, they could not come, as He made an end of all future sins by paying the price in full. What we have now is what would have separated us from God had Jesus not paid for them in advance. So no one can go into hell after Jesus. Part of bringing in everlasting righteousness seen in Daniel 9:24 which had to be fulfilled the day of the cross as it concerns Jesus as Luke 18:31 shows.

Daniel’s 70 weeks is a diversion, As all prophecies had to be fulfilled, Daniel’s vision of the Evening and morning is for many days, in this case for 70 weeks, and for a week, and for a thousand years, etc. The Evening and Morning or day of the Cross covers any time period needed to be fulfilled in Scripture, For many days. Here is where God multiplies visions, Using the same vision for more then one thing (Hosea 12:10)

So when Satan is bound for a thousand years, it is Jesus bound to fulfill the Scriptures of being in hell. The day as 3 pictures then as 3 days and three nights in the Heart of the Earth, or as Jonah, a Similitude. Nineveh a city of three days Journey, Jonah enters one, Day as 3 pictures, 1=anger, 2=fury, 3=wrath, Jonah is good to be angry unto death. Gourd is as Death, Jesus as a Worm (Job 25:6) smites the Gourd and ends death. Shadow or the Gourd or death was pleasant after all the Suffering.

The rest of the Dead lived not again till the 1,000 years was over, that is the Second day, The 1,000 year reign of Christ was the day of the Cross.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

New Heaven was Noon to Sunset, When Jesus dies on the Cross, That is the Fourth 6-hour period, Fourth seal is death followed by hell as Jesus died and descended into hell. So the Fall with all future sins on Jesus is then and into hell.

The HEART is the Second picture of the Day of the Cross, When Revived they are the UPRIGHT in Heart. Daniel’s visions are the day of the Cross when He is Dead and Jesus comes to them. He is in Corruption, No breadth in Him, He has His Face to the Ground, laying on your back in the Grave, the Ground is above you also. He is made to stand UPRIGHT.

The day as 2 12-hour periods, brought together is as the WHOLE HEART.

So in Hell, or in His HEART, Jesus did say “I will ascend into Heaven, He did say, I will be like the Most High. Jesus is David Son, Seen in Zechariah 12:8 “AS GOD” Or like God said, Given power to have life in Himself as God has that power.

The Seed of Abraham likened to the Stars of God. So when Jesus said “No man cometh unto the Father but by Me.” (Or by My taking mankind’s sin, and rendering to mankind My righteousness seen in Job 33:26) He exalted Himself above them. Jesus said they would see Him sitting next to God.

Clouds seen as sin in Isaiah 44:22. So Jesus would ascend above sins as He defeated sin at Golgotha.

Psalms 36:6 Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; thy judgments are a great deep: O LORD, thou preservest man and beast.

So the Judgments being a Great Deep, then the Depths of Satan is the Judgment of Christ and if you know the Depths of Satan as you speak, God can give you more to carry or Burdens, and that should tell you where Satan’s seat is, Right next to the Father.

Revelation 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

The messages to the Seven Churches is 7 steps to God, Just looking at what the overcomers get show they are steps, First is just come, they get to eat of the Tree of life or look at Scriptures, Second is to Believe, they are not hurt by the Second death or to be cast into the lake of fire, Which is to be immersed in God’s word, If you believe to be immersed in God’s word will not hurt you.

So Death, hell, etc are immersed in God’s word, To be Baptized with fire is also to be immersed in God’s word like as a fire in Jeremiah 23:29. Those found not written in the Lamb’s book of Life are those not yet conceived, They are covered in God’s word also, as Jesus made an end of sin, Brought in everlasting righteousness.

When Jesus took sins, all curses lie upon Him, So all is destroyed in Christ, He is as the Earth also cursed because of sin, So the Earth or the Cities destroyed is when Jesus died on the Cross.

Isaiah 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

The day of the Cross is as a house built for God, The name is the Wilderness, the name of the Day is “For Ever” And those in hell as HIS prisoners, But they have to wait till the next day to be set free.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The Lusts of the Father or the Desire is that Jesus dies for mankind, and they are the ones who will offer up the Sacrifice. The Beginning is the day of the Cross when the New World starts, The Old World had no beginning, the New World has no end.

Sunset to Midnight, Let there be Light, I am the True Vine, I am the Good Shepherd, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, In My Father’s house are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you, Etc, etc as Jesus pours out the Light, and the Evening and morning were the first day, it will be the Second day, it will be the third day, it will be the whole week. As all in Created in Christ, as our world is Created in Christ, as we are created in Christ.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jesus is what God is using, And He is being Created AS GOD, or the Creation OF GOD, not BY GOD.

Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

So Being Perfect in Beauty in the Day when Thou was created (Day of the Cross when the Son of David is Created AS GOD) Till Iniquity was found in Thee. Is for Jesus the day of the Cross. When God laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.

The day as 3 pictures, 1=Iniquity, 2=Mischief, 3=Falsehood.

Workers of Iniquity are the Disciples, they have to be cast off as He came to the House of Israel and they did not receive Him. Look how the Workers of Iniquity responded, it is the Disciples, Peter is the one who denied Him before men. All prophecies are fulfilled the day of the Cross, There were Similitudes before the day, Future similitudes after the day, all fulfillment was in one day.

Sunset to Midnight, Alive, offers Himself, Takes sin, White horse coming in clouds seen as sin in Isaiah 44:22. First Burden in Isaiah, as Babylon, Fallen as Jesus takes sin, Habitation of us all as God pours His spirit upon all flesh, all dead in Christ. We have all together become as an unclean thing, all as one Body, all guilty because of sin, no innocent babies all as one.

Midnight to sunrise, Spiritually dead, Second physical day a future similitude, Sunrise to noon, With His stripes we are healed. Or spiritually alive third physical day, resurrected from the dead or Spiritually alive again a future similitude.

Father of Lies. There were many prophets. Some were not from God, So God likens then all to lies or to false Prophets TILL The Prophecies were fulfilled the day of the Cross showing which Prophets were true Prophets. So the False Prophet, Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecies, as False till fulfilled, Immersed in God’s word the day of the Cross, or cast into the Lake of fire (fulfilled)

So God can say in the Absolute, all the prophets have lied in My Name, as all were as Lies till fulfilled, Father of Prophecies or promises or Father of lies is just how it is looked at.

Similitude for having Jesus go up and die at Calvary to fulfill God’s words and make them Truth:

1-Kings 20:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him , and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

The Truth was not in Him when Jesus spoke in John 8:44 because it is not made truth till all is fulfilled the day of the Cross when Heaven and earth flee away,

A Murder from the Beginning, the Beginning is when Jesus declares the end “It is finished” (Isaiah 46:10) Now it is when John 1:1 refers to. In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was With God, and the Word was God.

This one is getting long also.

Ken

[Cathar1950]

It seems they are growing myths that go way back.
There are as many divisions over theses names and ideas as there are for god or gods.
Persian and Greek ideas have played a part as more ancient cultures passed stories to them.
A biblical view would be like trying take all versions of them in entertainment.
It is an interesting history.
I imagine a believer finds what they are looking for.