Eternity

[Diogenes]

Is it intellectually dishonest to claim "God has always existed, without beginning and without end;"
yet claim the universe must have had a beginning?

[William]

What does that mean with respect to the real world? Can a "spirit" interact with matter? Can it do work? If it's "not necessarily bound by laws of physics," then by what mechanism does it affect the real world?

Theistically speaking 'spirit' is another word for 'ghost' which is an old expression which sought to describe what we know of in modern terminology as "Consciousness" - something that itself is broadly definable but re the material universe - appears to be a bit of a 'problem'.

[Diogenes]

What does that mean with respect to the real world? Can a "spirit" interact with matter? Can it do work? If it's "not necessarily bound by laws of physics," then by what mechanism does it affect the real world?

Theistically speaking 'spirit' is another word for 'ghost' which is an old expression which sought to describe what we know of in modern terminology as "Consciousness" - something that itself is broadly definable but re the material universe - appears to be a bit of a 'problem'.

"Ghosts." Yes, another word for spirits... and best described by children's cartoons, like "Casper, the Friendly Ghost." Ghosts operate without rules. They can slip through solid walls, yet they can pick up solid objects. They are creations of fantasy, objects for the gullible to indulge in as they defy logic and evidence.

[brunumb]

Ghosts operate without rules. They can slip through solid walls, yet they can pick up solid objects.

And if they are holy enough they can even impregnate sleeping virgins.

[William]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #52]

"Ghosts." Yes, another word for spirits... and best described by children's cartoons, like "Casper, the Friendly Ghost." Ghosts operate without rules. They can slip through solid walls, yet they can pick up solid objects. They are creations of fantasy, objects for the gullible to indulge in as they defy logic and evidence.

I think ghosts - like the devil - have been built upon to create mythology.
Consciousness on the other hand, isn't something which operates without rules, or pick up solid objects, and is a real phenomena rather than a fantasy.

[1213]

[Difflugia]

[JehovahsWitness]

If God doesn't change, then what triggered the beginning of the universe?

FIRSTLY MET ME .BE CLEAR I make no claims here, I am simply presenting the biblical point of view

[ * ] I am ONLY mentioning the bible to show what Christianity says in line with subforum guidelines, not to prove that a statement or story therein is true. ?I am not presenting the bible as authorative or proof of truth and have no intention to add an argument to that end in this subforum See LINKS for details: viewtopic.php?p=213491#p213491

Biblically speaking the universe began when God created it. I see no reason (I'm not making a claims that there isnt, only I can see no logical reason) why an intelligent all powerful being cannot (as is wont for intelligent beings) self-generate an idea and make that idea reality.

[Difflugia]

I see no reason (I'm not making a claims that there isnt, only I can see no logical reason) why an intelligent all powerful being cannot (as is wont for intelligent beings) self-generate an idea and make that idea reality.

Fantastic. When you've worked this out for yourself well enough that you're ready to make a claim, support it, and defend it, let us know.

[JehovahsWitness]

I see no reason (I'm not making a claims that there isnt, only I can see no logical reason) why an intelligent all powerful being cannot (as is wont for intelligent beings) self-generate an idea and make that idea reality.

Fantastic. When you've worked this out for yourself well enough that you're ready to make a claim, support it, and defend it, let us know.

Support what? That intelligent beings can self-generate ideas (that is self evident since self-generated idea making is a component of intelligence. For example, I presume you came up with your post alone, ie you self-generated ideas and committed them to script, thus demonstrating the point). If you would like to post why "intelligent beings cannot self-generate ideas" feel free.

That an intelligent omnipotent being (presuming he exists) could* make any self-generated idea a reality is a logical inevitability.

I do not need to make any claims to post intelligent discourse, comment on the Christian tradition and/or answer a question that pertains to the biblical text.

If God doesn't change, then what triggered the beginning of the universe?

ANSWER See post #57 above


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[ * ] I am ONLY mentioning the bible to show what Christianity says in line with subforum guidelines, not to prove that a statement or story therein is true. ?I am not presenting the bible as authorative or proof of truth and have no intention to add an argument to that end in this subforum See LINKS for details: viewtopic.php?p=213491#p213491

[William]