Russia Attacks Ukraine

[Diogenes]

For the first time since 1939 a major European power, Russia, has attacked another country in Europe, Ukraine. We have not seen an analogous situation since Germany attacked Poland setting off World War 2. Surprisingly we have Neville Chamberlain like appeasement/isolationist responses from Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson. Besides the 180° turn from traditional Republican politics, to what extent are these events relevant to Christianity?

[AgnosticBoy]

On this issue, those two are not representative of the Republican party. It seems that you were trying to paint a picture about Republicans since you said the following right after your comments about Republicans defending the Russian invasion...

That would have more impact if there were examples of other Republican leaders and elected officials condemning Trump and Carlson for their admiration of Putin. Just yesterday I saw a clip of George Stephanopoulis asking an elected Republican why he refused to condemn Trump's praise of Putin and the Republican wouldn't say.

Do you even know how many Republican leaders have or have not condemned Russia's latest actions? Where's the data on that?

Or are you assuming, and perhaps all part of a bias against Republicans/Christians/Conservatives?

I would want to know that before trying to paint a picture of some trend of Republicans giving a thumbs up to Putin.

[Jose Fly]

Do you even know how many Republican leaders have or have not condemned Russia's latest actions? Where's the data on that?

I've not done that sort of analysis, no.

Or are you assuming, and perhaps all part of a bias against Republicans/Christians/Conservatives?

I'm going by what they have said, both the good and the bad.

I would want to know that before trying to paint a picture of some trend of Republicans giving a thumbs up to Putin.

As I just posted, Sen. Romney was pretty explicit in his condemnation of both Putin and his fellow Republicans who have praised him. I appreciate him doing that.

[AgnosticBoy]

Do you even know how many Republican leaders have or have not condemned Russia's latest actions? Where's the data on that?

I've not done that sort of analysis, no.

Or are you assuming, and perhaps all part of a bias against Republicans/Christians/Conservatives?

I'm going by what they have said, both the good and the bad.

I would want to know that before trying to paint a picture of some trend of Republicans giving a thumbs up to Putin.

As I just posted, Sen. Romney was pretty explicit in his condemnation of both Putin and his fellow Republicans who have praised him. I appreciate him doing that.

This amounts to partisan rhetoric unless you can come back with data that justifies your claims.

[Jose Fly]

Do you even know how many Republican leaders have or have not condemned Russia's latest actions? Where's the data on that?

I've not done that sort of analysis, no.

Or are you assuming, and perhaps all part of a bias against Republicans/Christians/Conservatives?

I'm going by what they have said, both the good and the bad.

I would want to know that before trying to paint a picture of some trend of Republicans giving a thumbs up to Putin.

As I just posted, Sen. Romney was pretty explicit in his condemnation of both Putin and his fellow Republicans who have praised him. I appreciate him doing that.

This amounts to partisan rhetoric unless you can come back with data that justifies your claims.

Sorry, you've lost me.

[historia]

NATO bombed the sovereign Federal Republic of Yugoslavia during 1999.

Defeat for the Ukraine leadership seems inevitable, so why not surrender? The French did this in WW2

I'm not sure that complaining about how the Serbs were treated while they were in the midst of committing genocide or the suggestion that Ukraine should roll over for Putin like the French did for Hitler and the Nazis is quite the winning arguments you think they are.

Maybe if Russia stopped acting belligerently toward the Ukraine and its other neighbors, those neighbors wouldn't be so keen to join a military alliance to defend themselves against Russian aggression!

[alexxcJRO]

I wonder how the US government would react if California became an independent sovereign country and was expressing an interest in joining a military alliance with say China, and already receiving weapons shipments from China. I doubt they'd sit and watch it unfold.

Let's flesh out this hypothetical a bit further to make it more analogous to the situation in Ukraine.

Let's say 30 years ago the United States allowed its Pacific states -- Washington, Oregon, and California -- to become independent, sovereign nations.

But then 20 years ago a dictator rose to power in the United States who was intent on bringing California and the other now-independent countries back under U.S. control, funding the crackdown of dissidents in Oregon and pressuring California not to join an economic union with Canada.

California doesn't go along with that pressure, and so the U.S. invades and occupies San Diego, while funding separatist guerrillas in the San Joaquin Valley.

Is it understandable that the U.S., in this scenario, wouldn't want California joining a military alliance with China? Sure. Would they sit back while other countries funneled weapons into California so that California could defend itself? Probably not.

But who is the bad guy in this scenario? Who bears moral responsibility for the situation? I would be more than willing to condemn the U.S. should it act in this way, so why should I withhold a similar condemnation of Russia when it acts this way?

Maybe if Russia stopped acting belligerently toward the Ukraine and its other neighbors, those neighbors wouldn't be so keen to join a military alliance to defend themselves against Russian aggression!

Let's not be delusional.
USA has no moral upper ground.
USA invaded Afganistan, Irak, Vietnam in a process that resulted in the death of so many humans. The propaganda was in full swing like with Putin.
USA intervened in Syria and Lybia.

We have USA leader joking in sociopathic way about the death of Gaddafi: "We came, we saw, he died,". Like is the most trivial thing.

Putin, Clinton, Bush, Blair, Kim Jong-un and so on are all from the same cloth: hypocrites, sociopaths/psychopaths/narcissists, powerful/influential rich humans with delusions of grandeur so disconnected from the real world, who think they can do whatever they want and that the world is theirs to playing with it.

[Sherlock Holmes]

NATO bombed the sovereign Federal Republic of Yugoslavia during 1999.

Defeat for the Ukraine leadership seems inevitable, so why not surrender? The French did this in WW2

I'm not sure that complaining about how the Serbs were treated while they were in the midst of committing genocide or the suggestion that Ukraine should roll over for Putin like the French did for Hitler and the Nazis is quite the winning arguments you think they are.

Maybe if Russia stopped acting belligerently toward the Ukraine and its other neighbors, those neighbors wouldn't be so keen to join a military alliance to defend themselves against Russian aggression!

Even if what you say about "Serbs committing genocide" was true (it was as much misrepresented, propaganda as Russia's current claims about Ukraine persecuting Russians living there) that does not make it legal for NATO to bomb Serbia. The UN is the body for resolving such disputes not NATO.

All it takes is for a western newspaper to print "genocide" and the uncritical public are duped. A good example of press propaganda is the recent news about a group of Ukrainian soldiers refusing to surrender all being killed, then a few days later guess what? they weren't.

Ukraine has honoured 13 soldiers who were killed defending a tiny island after reportedly swearing at a Russian ship that ordered them to surrender. In unverified audio clips, the borders guards defending Zmiinyi Island in the Black Sea are told to "lay down your weapons" or "be bombed".
"Russian warship, go to hell," they respond. Ukraine says they were then killed by air and sea strikes. Russia denies the account, saying they all surrendered.

then

But in a recent statement posted on Facebook, the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine said: “We [have a] strong belief that all Ukrainian defenders of Zmiinyi (Snake) Island may be alive.”

The strife in Yugoslavia that became a bloodbath was orchestrated by the West as is the trouble we have now with Ukraine, the West are never far away.

The west start or encourage a war or invade (Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya, East Timor, Nicaragua, Panama, Afghanistan...) and its always "justified", "saving democracy", then along comes Russia invading Ukraine and its the evil empire, Hitler reincarnate, the press enable these misrepresentations and the uncritical public never question this official "truth".

[Jose Fly]

Well this is disturbing (but sadly not shocking)....



For non-Twitter users, it's a clip of white nationalist Nick Fuentes (of the Charlottesville "Unite the Right" rally infamy) at a white nationalist conference introducing Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene and saying "Now they’re going on about Russia and Vladimir Putin is Hitler — they say that’s not a good thing”, then asking the crowd to “give a round of applause for Russia”, and as they did responding, “Absolutely,” as attendees chant “Putin! Putin!”.

Republican Rep. Paul Gosar spoke at the conference as well.

[Jose Fly]

Greene and Gosar were not the only Republicans at that white nationalist conference....

Wendy Rogers said white nationalists are ‘patriots’ and called for hanging political enemies

And this is Rep. Rogers' view on the Russia situation....



And over in Delaware, this is Lauren Witzke, Republican candidate for Senate....

[AgnosticBoy]

As we speak many countries are planning to supply weapons and ammunition to Ukraine, thus using Ukraine as the proxy to fight Russia, if they want peace they would never do this, the more they arm Ukraine the more Russia will fight and the more devastation will ensue.

It was arming Ukraine after the 2014 coup, that has provoked what we see today: Brookings Institute - Why Arming the Ukrainians is a Bad Idea.

Well I can say the war rhetoric from Western countries, including Ukraine is not helping. It's only inflaming the situation. Of course, Putin himself is contributing to this rhetoric. Now this is becoming a game of who has the bigger balls which I assume is why Putin sending in reinforcements from Belarus and Chechnya to fight his war. The West should not be playing this game unless they are willing to send actual manpower to Ukraine.



I think this is really an unnecessary step, and again is just Putin trying to show off whatever military might he has.