"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

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Miles
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"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

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To Note: This OP has came about more as an eye-opener about Jehovah's Witnesses rather than any attempt at disparagement. Recognizing that every religion, denomination, and congregation has the right to operate as best it sees fit under its particular guidelines, my presentation and comments are strictly the result of surprise and befuddlement after watching the video, Shun Your Family.


I've heard of disfellowship among Jehovah's Witnesses before, but never realized the extent it goes to as a disloyalty test. So, what is disfellowship?

"Disfellowship:
To 'remove the wicked
man' or woman from
the congregation
Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.23 simplified edition"

"Jehovah's Witnesses are disfellowshipped for practices such as disagreeing with Watchtower doctrine, smoking or fornication, if judged by the congregation elders as unrepentant. A disfellowshipped person is to be shunned by all family and friends, usually for the remainder of their life, and go through tremendous emotional suffering. Whilst Scriptural precedence limits association with wrongdoers, Watchtower application of disfellowshipping seriously deviates from Bible guidelines.
source


A particularly disturbing comment in the video below:

"We have to put him [Jehovah] before a father, a mother, and even our children if they're disfellowshipped. And if the disfellowshipping of our family is not bad enough, loyalty to Jehovah may mean we even have to endure reproach. We may be hurting because, 'I can't, can't talk to my family member."
(time mark 2:41)


....................


What really amazes me is that the organization refuses to take any responsibility whatsoever for a member becoming "wicked." Yet it does refuse to, and even tells its members refuse to as well. From the video:

"Now we're gonna mention three things NOT to do, and two of them are games not to play.

The first one is, don't play the blame game. Resist self-blame. We may think that we're at fault somehow. Remember that Jehovah holds sinners responsible for their actions. Even young ones that are disfellowshipped . . it's because their relationship with Jehovah was weak.

Avoid the "if only games." "If only we would have preached more, if only I would have talked to them more." "If only we would have done more in the organization. If only. . .If only . . . Don't do that to ourselves
"


It's as if every mother, father, and JW preacher knew exactly how to get through to their children and other members, and actually did so. Think that's true? I don't. I've never heard a JW preacher speak, but I have heard a fair number of other Christian ministers, several of whom were so abysmal they couldn't convince a soaking wet dog to come in out of the rain. Thing is, from time to time we all fail in our relationships with others, and despite the JW philosophy, it isn't always the other guy's fault. Sometimes it's our own, in whole or in part. As willing to listen as a Jehovah's Witness may be it's only reasonable to acknowledge the possible failure of parents and preachers to get through. We don't all come with the same set of responsive abilities. Some of us simply have to be approached from another angle before the message sinks in. So for the sake of those Jehovah's Witnesses who are on the brink of becoming one of the "wicked," as well as their families, I think it would be nice if the organization changed their blame game and acknowledged the part it plays in the failures among its membership.


SO: Do you think I have a point here or not?

.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #201

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:33 pm Peace to you timothy,

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #199]

If you think it was just a remark on sexual abuse, then you missed the point of the comment.

I digress...
I even said I didn't get what his comment had to do with mine, so yes I missed it as I said, sheesh....are you reading my comments?

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #202

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:59 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:33 pm Peace to you timothy,

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #199]

If you think it was just a remark on sexual abuse, then you missed the point of the comment.

I digress...
I even said I didn't get his comment.....are you reading my comments?
Yes, but he explained it:

I felt it was worth chiming in to make the point that not all people's experience in the WTS organization is the same. - w_a_v

Some people might not have a bad experience (as you claim for yourself). That doesn't erase the bad experiences that others do have.



Peace again.
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #203

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:04 pm Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:59 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:33 pm Peace to you timothy,

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #199]

If you think it was just a remark on sexual abuse, then you missed the point of the comment.

I digress...
I even said I didn't get his comment.....are you reading my comments?
Yes, but he explained it:

I felt it was worth chiming in to make the point that not all people's experience in the WTS organization is the same. - w_a_v

Some people might not have a bad experience (as you claim for yourself). That doesn't erase the bad experiences that others do have.



Peace again.
Yet my comment had nothing to do with anything he was talking about. My comment was backing what JW said as true, that not all people that leave the Witnesses are shunned. End of comment. Where all this other stuff is coming from and what my comment as to do with it is beyond me. And who said I didn't have a bad experience. Show me where I claimed I didn't. People are assuming too much from one comment.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #204

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:09 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:04 pm Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:59 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:33 pm Peace to you timothy,

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #199]

If you think it was just a remark on sexual abuse, then you missed the point of the comment.

I digress...
I even said I didn't get his comment.....are you reading my comments?
Yes, but he explained it:

I felt it was worth chiming in to make the point that not all people's experience in the WTS organization is the same. - w_a_v

Some people might not have a bad experience (as you claim for yourself). That doesn't erase the bad experiences that others do have.



Peace again.
Yet my comment had nothing to do with anything he was talking about. My comment was backing what JW said as true, that not all people that leave the Witnesses are shunned.


Sure, but no one claimed that ALL people who leave the Witnesses are shunned. The argument has been (for and against) that no one is shunned just for leaving. The comment was on that point. Sure you are presenting your testimony as a person who left but was not shunned (though you had no association with anyone by your choice), but there are others who present their testimony that they were shunned for leaving.
And who said I didn't have a bad experience. Show me where I claimed I didn't. People are assuming too much from one comment.
You did not have the bad experience of being shunned by all of your loved ones and friends in the religion.

Peace again.
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #205

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:20 pm Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:09 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:04 pm Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:59 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:33 pm Peace to you timothy,

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #199]

If you think it was just a remark on sexual abuse, then you missed the point of the comment.

I digress...
I even said I didn't get his comment.....are you reading my comments?
Yes, but he explained it:

I felt it was worth chiming in to make the point that not all people's experience in the WTS organization is the same. - w_a_v

Some people might not have a bad experience (as you claim for yourself). That doesn't erase the bad experiences that others do have.



Peace again.
Yet my comment had nothing to do with anything he was talking about. My comment was backing what JW said as true, that not all people that leave the Witnesses are shunned.


Sure, but no one claimed that ALL people who leave the Witnesses are shunned.
Read post 175 again. I don't care what anyone claimed. Again, I was backing up a statement JW made as true. Oy vay! Some people just fight to fight.
viewtopic.php?p=1068289#p1068289

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #206

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:42 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:20 pm Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:09 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:04 pm Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:59 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:33 pm Peace to you timothy,

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #199]

If you think it was just a remark on sexual abuse, then you missed the point of the comment.

I digress...
I even said I didn't get his comment.....are you reading my comments?
Yes, but he explained it:

I felt it was worth chiming in to make the point that not all people's experience in the WTS organization is the same. - w_a_v

Some people might not have a bad experience (as you claim for yourself). That doesn't erase the bad experiences that others do have.



Peace again.
Yet my comment had nothing to do with anything he was talking about. My comment was backing what JW said as true, that not all people that leave the Witnesses are shunned.


Sure, but no one claimed that ALL people who leave the Witnesses are shunned.
Read post 175 again. I don't care what anyone claimed. Again, I was backing up a statement JW made as true. Oy vay! Some people just fight to fight.
viewtopic.php?p=1068289#p1068289
You backing up a statement is fine, timothy. It's also fine that someone commented on your post, even if it was just to make a point in the grander scheme of the thread topic.


I think we have beaten this dead horse enough though. So I am going to move on from it...


Peace again.
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #207

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:20 pm

You did not have the bad experience of being shunned by all of your loved ones and friends in the religion.

Peace again.
What a person feels is a 'bad experience' is subjective.
I have had the experience of being shunned by a person's personal choice. Yes even by family. Sure it's not pleasant, but to me It's not as soul crushing as people here seem make it. This is because I have never made people as the center of what makes me happy.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #208

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:47 pm

You backing up a statement is fine, timothy. It's also fine that someone commented on your post, even if it was just to make a point in the grander scheme of the thread topic.
That is not what I read but, ok.
I think we have beaten this dead horse enough though. So I am going to move on from it...
All of this should have never been discussed the first place. The horse was DoA. But for some reason this was the hill you wanted to die on.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #209

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:02 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:20 pm

You did not have the bad experience of being shunned by all of your loved ones and friends in the religion.

Peace again.
What a person feels is a 'bad experience' is subjective.
I have had the experience of being shunned by a person's personal choice. Yes even by family. Sure it's not pleasant, but to me It's not as soul crushing as people here seem make it. This is because I have never made people as the center of what makes me happy.
I thought you said you weren't shunned when you left?
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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #210

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:27 pm Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:02 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:20 pm

You did not have the bad experience of being shunned by all of your loved ones and friends in the religion.

Peace again.
What a person feels is a 'bad experience' is subjective.
I have had the experience of being shunned by a person's personal choice. Yes even by family. Sure it's not pleasant, but to me It's not as soul crushing as people here seem make it. This is because I have never made people as the center of what makes me happy.
I thought you said you weren't shunned when you left?
There was no official disfellowshipping in my case. No direction from the podium that I should be avoided. But Jehovah's Witnesses are urged to choose their friends wisely. I was certainly considered bad association and they were right. There were those that wisely made a personal choice to cut all ties with me, and yes not even speak to me. Which at the time it stung a little bit, but I quickly got over it, as there were plenty of distractions and soon I could not have cared less.

Witness or not just about everyone in the world knows someone they shun or make as little contact as possible based on that person's behavior. There are those that are not disfellowshipped that I do not associate with even now.

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