She lived a life of love and service unto others

Zzyzx · Post by **Zzyzx** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:14 pm

She lived a life of love and service unto others.

Aunt Rose never said an unkind word to or about anyone. She dedicated her life to helping others. Her own needs and desires were always secondary to making life a little bit better for those in need. She worked for modest wage in a charity hospital serving poor people, and did other charity work in her spare time. She lived frugally and gave generously when she knew it was needed. She helped those who were genuinely in need – not those looking for a handout – and she knew the difference.

She made it clear that her actions came from her own mind, by her own decisions – and not from any religious beliefs. She left no doubt that she had no use or time for religion. When religious people tried to “save” her, she told them to go practice what they preach and when they had done that as long as she had, come back and talk again. I never heard about anyone returning to “witness” to her.

Aunt Rose lived into her nineties, helping and caring and loving others as best she could right up to the end. She had no fear of death or the “damnation” that is commonly threatened as a “fate” of non-believers. She died in peace, loved and respected by many.

A Christian who had known her said that it was a real shame that such a good person had refused to “accept Christ as her savior” so her soul could go to heaven. I asked where that person thought her soul had gone and he said “She cannot have gone to heaven because she rejected Jesus Christ”. He would not say directly that she had gone to hell, but he did not identify an alternative between the two for special cases like hers. He left the question (and her soul’s location) hanging.

That made quite an impression on me – a very negative impression of that person’s version of Christianity. A person who had lived more wholesomely and graciously and lovingly than anyone I had ever known (religious or not) could not “go to heaven” because she didn’t meet the criteria??????

I have asked many religious people since what they believe about a case like Aunt Rose’s. I have gotten a lot of different answers from Christians of various denominations – and from Christians within the same denomination. I heard an even greater variety of answers from those who practice Non-Christian religions or other types of spiritualism.

What is your answer to where the soul of Aunt Rose resides? Why do you think so?

mcbr4481 · Post by **mcbr4481** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:14 pm

No, He wants people who will recognize that they have done wrong, repent of those wrong doings trust in his mercy and grace and then live a moral life. What do you see as wrong with that?

Metatron · Post by **Metatron** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:38 pm

mcbr4481 wrote:No, He wants people who will recognize that they have done wrong, repent of those wrong doings trust in his mercy and grace and then live a moral life. What do you see as wrong with that?

What does morality have to do with this?

By your own admission, the only criteria for admission to heaven (and therefore avoiding eternal torment) is faith in Jesus. The non-believer who tells the whitest of lies is eternally damned. A serial murderer who comes to Christ is saved. Morality is irrelevant.

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:17 pm

mcbr4481 wrote: You must completly sumbit yourself to
God and be willing to HUMBLE yourself before this rightous ruler in order to go to heaven. People talk like christians are bad, true christians are great people its the false converts that make you think christianity is bad

You should be a Muslim. Having read the koran you would understand what 'Islam' means.

katiej49 · Post by **katiej49** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:21 pm

Metatron wrote:
mcbr4481 wrote:No one is good in Gods eyes, that is where you are all mistaken. No human being is worth the praise of heaven. You must completly sumbit yourself to
God and be willing to HUMBLE yourself before this rightous ruler in order to go to heaven. People talk like christians are bad, true christians are great people its the false converts that make you think christianity is bad
So the answer to my question above:

"Does God want good people for his heaven or fawning slaves?"

is apparently slaves.

Morality plays no role, only the blind adulation of an intangible spirit who is seemingly okay with condemning most of mankind to eternal torment.

just how good do you have to be?

mcbr4481 · Post by **mcbr4481** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:25 pm

You would have to be perfect or have a perfect sacrafice

And islam stands for complete submission. Katie makes a great point where do you draw the line??? God who is perfect draws it at perfection..

Metatron · Post by **Metatron** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:46 pm

mcbr4481 wrote:You would have to be perfect or have a perfect sacrafice And islam stands for complete submission. Katie makes a great point where do you draw the line??? God who is perfect draws it at perfection..

So God in his infinite wisdom and compassion created an imperfect being to be held to a perfect moral standard? Am I the only one who believes this to be grossly unjust?

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:12 pm

mcbr4481 wrote: And islam stands for complete submission.

Which is exactly what you claimed is required whebn you stated: You must completly sumbit yourself to
God

What are you - christian or muslim? Or is christianity (your version) and islam exactly the same on this point.

Zzyzx · Post by **Zzyzx** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:23 pm

mcbr4481 wrote:You must completly sumbit yourself to God and be willing to HUMBLE yourself before this rightous ruler in order to go to heaven.

I, for one, am not attracted to a supernatural being who requires subjects to prostrate themselves, submit themselves, or grovel in humbleness in an attempt to gain a "good seat" in the "afterlife".

I see no reason to believe that an "afterlife" exists -- in spite of all the wishful thinking of all the religions in the world (and all fanciful attempts to avoid the finality of death).

Is there any reason to "worship" this god other than to "have everlasting life in heaven"?

katiej49 · Post by **katiej49** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:52 pm

Is there any reason to "worship" this god other than to "have everlasting life in heaven"?[/quote]

yeah. i have a relationship with Him. I talk to Him about my life, my problems, praise Him for His help....dont you enjoy talking to your friends? its the same with God, only more so. I can tell Him ANYTHING (i've screamed and yelled at Him at times)...He still loves me

Metatron · Post by **Metatron** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:05 am

katiej49 wrote:Is there any reason to "worship" this god other than to "have everlasting life in heaven"?

yeah. i have a relationship with Him. I talk to Him about my life, my problems, praise Him for His help....dont you enjoy talking to your friends? its the same with God, only more so. I can tell Him ANYTHING (i've screamed and yelled at Him at times)...He still loves me[/quote]

errr.... when you talk to God, does he talk back? If not, I fail to see how this is similar to conversing with a friend.