She lived a life of love and service unto others

Zzyzx · Post by **Zzyzx** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:14 pm

She lived a life of love and service unto others.

Aunt Rose never said an unkind word to or about anyone. She dedicated her life to helping others. Her own needs and desires were always secondary to making life a little bit better for those in need. She worked for modest wage in a charity hospital serving poor people, and did other charity work in her spare time. She lived frugally and gave generously when she knew it was needed. She helped those who were genuinely in need – not those looking for a handout – and she knew the difference.

She made it clear that her actions came from her own mind, by her own decisions – and not from any religious beliefs. She left no doubt that she had no use or time for religion. When religious people tried to “save” her, she told them to go practice what they preach and when they had done that as long as she had, come back and talk again. I never heard about anyone returning to “witness” to her.

Aunt Rose lived into her nineties, helping and caring and loving others as best she could right up to the end. She had no fear of death or the “damnation” that is commonly threatened as a “fate” of non-believers. She died in peace, loved and respected by many.

A Christian who had known her said that it was a real shame that such a good person had refused to “accept Christ as her savior” so her soul could go to heaven. I asked where that person thought her soul had gone and he said “She cannot have gone to heaven because she rejected Jesus Christ”. He would not say directly that she had gone to hell, but he did not identify an alternative between the two for special cases like hers. He left the question (and her soul’s location) hanging.

That made quite an impression on me – a very negative impression of that person’s version of Christianity. A person who had lived more wholesomely and graciously and lovingly than anyone I had ever known (religious or not) could not “go to heaven” because she didn’t meet the criteria??????

I have asked many religious people since what they believe about a case like Aunt Rose’s. I have gotten a lot of different answers from Christians of various denominations – and from Christians within the same denomination. I heard an even greater variety of answers from those who practice Non-Christian religions or other types of spiritualism.

What is your answer to where the soul of Aunt Rose resides? Why do you think so?

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:50 pm

Zzyzx wrote:She lived a life of love and service unto others.

What is your answer to where the soul of Aunt Rose resides? Why do you think so?

It resides in your memory and the memories of those like you. Through her soul, her spirit added to the zeitgeist.

I'd say she was a happy person as well.

mcbr4481 · Post by **mcbr4481** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:44 am

The problem is she had done wrong, she had commited sin's agenst she wasn't "Perfect" so with out Jesus Christ she goes to hell....

Heaven is a perfect place, no one can go to heaven unless they are perfect. If aunt rose wasn't perfect (Which she wasen't) and didn't accept her perfect sacrafice (Jesus Christ) then she went to hell.

Sorry, but its the truth. Jesus said, "Iam the way the truth the life and no one comes to the father but through me.".

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:53 am

mcbr4481 wrote:The problem is she had done wrong, she had commited sin's agenst she wasn't "Perfect" so with out Jesus Christ she goes to hell....

Heaven is a perfect place, no one can go to heaven unless they are perfect. If aunt rose wasn't perfect (Which she wasen't) and didn't accept her perfect sacrafice (Jesus Christ) then she went to hell.

Sorry, but its the truth. Jesus said, "Iam the way the truth the life and no one comes to the father but through me.".

I find that to be a very callous uncaring way of thinking.

Unless one is able to develop a loving, caring and compssionate attitude in life they will never find happiness.

if that is chrisitianity - you can keep it.

I have higher standards.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:14 am

mcbr4481 wrote:The problem is she had done wrong, she had commited sin's agenst she wasn't "Perfect" so with out Jesus Christ she goes to hell....

Heaven is a perfect place, no one can go to heaven unless they are perfect. If aunt rose wasn't perfect (Which she wasen't) and didn't accept her perfect sacrafice (Jesus Christ) then she went to hell.

Sorry, but its the truth. Jesus said, "Iam the way the truth the life and no one comes to the father but through me.".

Where does the 'No one comes through the father but through me' declare that belief in Jesus as God and Son of God is a requirement? I have seen many Christians interepret that means that Jesus is the gate, and that he opened it up for everyone.

I have seen the interpretation that the 'way , the truth and the life' is living life as Jesus said it is to be lived, with love and compassion (In other words, exactly like Aunt Rose did)

So you believe the Heaven is a chrisitan ghetto?

Since you are interpreting those words to mean that belief in Jesus as the son of God and God is a requirement, can you defend that interpretation , using those words in context? In other words, just using the words within 5 paragraphs before and after.

micatala · Post by **micatala** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:12 pm

I think Aunt Rose, if as described, would be in heaven.

In addition to the issue raised by goat, there are also other passages of scripture that I think support a less 'absolutist view'. Paul at one point alludes to those who are a 'law unto themselves' and who do right without knowing the law.

This also brings to mind C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia. Obviously this is not scripture, but I think it does show that a significant Christian apologist would also allow that Aunt Rose is in heaven.

In the last book of the series, The Narnians who serve Aslan (a type of Christ) are fighting against the Calormenes who serve the "great God Tash". Most of the Calormenes are cynical and do not believe in Tash, but one sincere young soldier does believe in Tash. We are given to believe this soldier has integrity, treats others kindly etc. When he does have an opportunity to see Tash he is actually not 'claimed by' Tash but by Aslan, who later explains that all those who do good, whether in the name of Tash or Aslan, belong to me and receive their due reward. All those who do evil, whether in the name of Tash or Aslan, belong to Tash and are his.

If Aunt Rose was doing good, even if she did not worship Christ (perhaps because the Christians around her gave her a very negative impression of Christianity), I do not think God would hold that latter against her but would rather reward her for her selfless good deeds.

I would certainly think she has a better chance of being in heaven than the likes of Jimmy Swaggart or Kent Hovind.

Finally, it is worth remembering the sheep and the goats of Matthew chapter 25.

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

mcbr4481 · Post by **mcbr4481** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:19 pm

I'am the way the truth the light NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME.

that seems pretty clear...

"If you have not the son, you have not the father"

"He who has the son has eternal life, he who does not will surly parish"

If a christian says someone can go to heaven without Jesus Christ, they are not truly a christian but a mislead proffesing christian. No good deads will out way your bad you nead Jesus Christ as your lord and savior..

Metatron · Post by **Metatron** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:31 pm

mcbr4481 wrote:I'am the way the truth the light NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME.

that seems pretty clear...

"If you have not the son, you have not the father"

"He who has the son has eternal life, he who does not will surly parish"

If a christian says someone can go to heaven without Jesus Christ, they are not truly a christian but a mislead proffesing christian. No good deads will out way your bad you nead Jesus Christ as your lord and savior..

So your version of God will condemn all people who cannot make the proverbial leap of faith to eternal torment in hell, no matter how good they may be in life?

How do you reconcile the utter lack of mercy in this action with the often touted notion that God is compassionate and just?

Does God want good people for his heaven or fawning slaves?

mcbr4481 · Post by **mcbr4481** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:43 pm

No one is good in Gods eyes, that is where you are all mistaken. No human being is worth the praise of heaven. You must completly sumbit yourself to
God and be willing to HUMBLE yourself before this rightous ruler in order to go to heaven. People talk like christians are bad, true christians are great people its the false converts that make you think christianity is bad

Metatron · Post by **Metatron** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:11 pm

mcbr4481 wrote:No one is good in Gods eyes, that is where you are all mistaken. No human being is worth the praise of heaven. You must completly sumbit yourself to
God and be willing to HUMBLE yourself before this rightous ruler in order to go to heaven. People talk like christians are bad, true christians are great people its the false converts that make you think christianity is bad

So the answer to my question above:

"Does God want good people for his heaven or fawning slaves?"

is apparently slaves.

Morality plays no role, only the blind adulation of an intangible spirit who is seemingly okay with condemning most of mankind to eternal torment.

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She lived a life of love and service unto others

She lived a life of love and service unto others

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