Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

[Wootah]

https://biblehub.com/luke/20-38.htm

37Even Moses demonstrates that the dead are raised, in the passage about the burning bush. For he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive.”

Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob alive or dead right now?

[JehovahsWitness]

Hi JW - can you link me to that belief? I didn't know that you don't believe in the immortality of the soul. Incredible.

Official Jehovahs Witness WEBSITE: https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... is-a-soul/


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[Checkpoint]

https://biblehub.com/luke/20-38.htm

37Even Moses demonstrates that the dead are raised, in the passage about the burning bush. For he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive.”

Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob alive or dead right now?

Abraham,Isaac, and Jacob, are alive to God, even though they are dead, right now, to us.

That is because God's thoughts are not our thoughts, and our ways are not His ways. Isaiah 55:17

To God, they are alive, because "He calls things that are not, as though they are". Romans 4:17

[Wootah]

https://biblehub.com/luke/20-38.htm

37Even Moses demonstrates that the dead are raised, in the passage about the burning bush. For he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive.”

Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob alive or dead right now?

Abraham,Isaac, and Jacob, are alive to God, even though they are dead, right now, to us.

That is because God's thoughts are not our thoughts, and our ways are not His ways. Isaiah 55:17

To God, they are alive, because "He calls things that are not, as though they are". Romans 4:17

1)
Sam dies and is a Christian. According to you he is in God's memory.
Joe dies and is not a Christian. According to you is Joe in God's memory and 'alive'?

2) No normal reading of Isaiah thinks that someone is alive if they are in their memory only. The Isaiah verse has nothing to do with the afterlife.

3) Romans 4:17 - 'who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.' Kind of refutes you if you use the whole verse.

But lets get into it. Sam and Joe die and are both in God's memory? What part of being in God's memory makes them alive to God? Make it make sense please.

[myth-one.com]

Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob alive or dead right now?

It depends on one's point of view.

According to the Bible, two separate and distinct deaths can befall man. The first and most obvious death ends our short physical life which we are presently living on the earth.

Our second possible physical death is described in the book of Revelation:

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Individuals whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death. They die because they are physical bodies which can die. They are physical bodies because they have never believed in Jesus and been born again as a spirit which cannot die.

It is very important to notice that this death is actually labeled as a death! That is, it is final and eternal. There is no recovery or return from the second death! This truly fits the definition of the word death. It is the permanent cessation of all vital functions of life.

When the first death of any man is discussed in the Bible, the words used to describe that event are typically sleep, slumber, or rest. Only man, among all the animals is said to sleep, slumber, or rest when he dies. When Jesus raised people from the dead, He often stated they were not dead, but simply asleep:

Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

If true death is final, then our first death is not death at all. It does not meet the definition of death. That is, it is not final or permanent. As doctors and medical technicians "restore life" to someone after their heart has stopped, God is going to restore the physical life of nonbelievers many years after their first "death" at the second resurrection. In many cases after having been "dead" for thousands of years. Therefore, their first death is not actually a death because it is not final and permanent. They will live again. It is final to us here on the earth. That is, man cannot restore another man's life after his first death, only God can.

So Jesus was correct when He stated that Lazarus' stinking body which had been lying in the grave for four days was only sleeping:

Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.

When pressed, Jesus spoke plainly and stated that Lazarus was indeed dead. Plainly indicates that Jesus spoke in terms of how man understands death:

Then Jesus said unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

In neither case, when Jesus said Lazarus was asleep nor when He said Lazarus was dead, was He incorrect. Both statements are true! One was from God's point of view and the other was from man's point of view. From God's perspective there is one true death, the second death.

So Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are resting in their graves awaiting resurrection or awakening under God's point of view.

And they are dead and buried under mankind's point of view.

[Checkpoint]

https://biblehub.com/luke/20-38.htm

37Even Moses demonstrates that the dead are raised, in the passage about the burning bush. For he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive.”

Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob alive or dead right now?

Abraham,Isaac, and Jacob, are alive to God, even though they are dead, right now, to us.

That is because God's thoughts are not our thoughts, and our ways are not His ways. Isaiah 55:17

To God, they are alive, because "He calls things that are not, as though they are". Romans 4:17

1)

Sam dies and is a Christian. According to you he is in God's memory.
Joe dies and is not a Christian. According to you is Joe in God's memory and 'alive'?

2) No normal reading of Isaiah thinks that someone is alive if they are in their memory only. The Isaiah verse has nothing to do with the afterlife.

3) Romans 4:17 - 'who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.' Kind of refutes you if you use the whole verse.

1) Not necessarily "according to" me...the memory was not mentioned in my post.

Well then, is it or is it not what our God does with mankind, regardless of whether they are finally saved or lost?

Scripture tells us all, that at the Judgment our name will be found in the book of life, or it will not be found there.

He will then remember what or who He remembers, and will forget who or what He forgets.

2) The Isaiah verse has no more, and no less, than, many others, to do with the afterlife.

3) The whole verse does not refute me.

Rather, it highlights that resurrection is the only way anyone can receive eternal life; that is how He "gives life to the dead".

But lets get into it. Sam and Joe die and are both in God's memory? What part of being in God's memory makes them alive to God? Make it make sense please.

No part of being in God's memory makes anyone "alive to God".

For these verses to make sense to us, we need to begin to think like God thinks, and like Jesus did and does think.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #105]

Being in God's memory means that they are alive to him, in that he remembers every minute detail about the dead person. So it is AS IF they were alive to him.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #105]

Being in God's memory means that they are alive to him, in that he remembers every minute detail about the dead person. So it is AS IF they were alive to him.

Does he remember the wicked in the same way as the good?

Sam dies and is a Christian. Is Sam 'alive' in God's memory. Joe dies and is not a Christian. According to you is Joe in God's memory and 'alive'?

Sam and Joe die and are both in God's memory? What part of being in God's memory makes them alive to God? Make it make sense, please.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #105]

Being in God's memory means that they are alive to him, in that he remembers every minute detail about the dead person. So it is AS IF they were alive to him.

Does he remember the wicked in the same way as the good?

Sam dies and is a Christian. Is Sam 'alive' in God's memory. Joe dies and is not a Christian. According to you is Joe in God's memory and 'alive'?

Sam and Joe die and are both in God's memory? What part of being in God's memory makes them alive to God? Make it make sense, please.

Their resurrection is assured and is going to happen. So they are counted as alive in God's eyes, as if sleeping. When you go into a dreamless sleep, your family and friends don't consider you as no longer living. You're going to wake up eventually. So the same is for those that are dead and will be resurrected. Death is only permanent if Jehovah says so, something hard for us humans to wrap our head around because death seems permanent to us.

[Wootah]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #108]

Sleeping people aren't dead.

Is Sam and Joe both in God's memory?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #108]

Sleeping people aren't dead.

Is Sam and Joe both in God's memory?

IDK, but if they are, they are sleeping and not dead to God and therefore considered alive in the eyes of Jehovah.