Why Was Satan . . .

[Miles]

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. . . given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?


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Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?


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[Miles]

There! See, I just said it.

And I'm sure you believe sincerely with all your heart that what you said it true. However I'll just remind you that believing what you say doesn't make it true.

Just as believing what you say doesn't make it true.


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[Miles]

Who ultimately decides in the absolute what is right and what is wrong? You?

Why not?

Because for any human who, by definition is limited in lifespan, experience and knowledge to set himself up as the the universal judge what is acceptable for all intelligent beings for all time would be the ultimate in folly. No human (not even you my friend) is in a position to properly assess every action, its motives and circumstances and see the ultimate gravity of said action as it impacts on others as far into the future as they wil exist. No human can see, let alone understand the entire scope of existence and judge what and how that must be assessed to ensure the best of all possible outcomes for everyone concerned ... for all time.

That's why not.

If I don't, or you don't, or anyone else doesn't (your fallible god has nicely disqualified himself), then I guess there's no such thing as an absolute right and or wrong, which I'm quite fine with.


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[JehovahsWitness]

Who ultimately decides in the absolute what is right and what is wrong? You?

Why not?

Because for any human who, by definition is limited in lifespan, experience and knowledge to set himself up as the the universal judge what is acceptable for all intelligent beings for all time would be the ultimate in folly. No human (not even you my friend) is in a position to properly assess every action, its motives and circumstances and see the ultimate gravity of said action as it impacts on others as far into the future as they wil exist. No human can see, let alone understand the entire scope of existence and judge what and how that must be assessed to ensure the best of all possible outcomes for everyone concerned ... for all time.

That's why not.

...your fallible god has nicely disqualified himself...

Would this be another example of you "saying" what you believe to be true?

The God of the bible* is presented as being infaillible, incorruptible, infinite and omniscient; in short, to be the ONLY one with the needed qualities and capacities to declare what is right and what is wrong for everyone. I think even an atheist can recognise that should such a God exist, he would be better suited than any human to decide absolute right and or wrong.







JW

[ * ] I am ONLY mentioning the bible to show what Christianity says in line with subforum guidelines, not to prove that a statement or story therein is true. ​I am not presenting the bible as authorative or proof of truth and have no intention to add an argument to that end in this subforum See LINKS for details: viewtopic.php?p=213491#p213491

[nobspeople]

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. . . given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?


.............................


Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?


.

God seems to need 'help' from others to do many things. Which is odd for an all powerful, all capable being (as some believe).
If god can be both a man and a god (like some religions believe) and if god was before all things (again, like some believe) I see no reason to think satan isn't god in some part. Thus, god did do the tempting.
Even if this isn't the case - satan is a real, individual being - this still means god allowed satan to tempt others. So which is worse: god masquerading are satan to do the tempting or god allowing it to happen at all?
Six of one, half a dozen of the other, really.

[myth-one.com]

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Why was Satan given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?

Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?

Satan was given power over the earth long before the creation of man:

Which can be found in what chapter and verse(s)?
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In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

[JehovahsWitness]

Satan was given power over the earth long before the creation of man:

Which can be found in what chapter and verse(s)?
.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

How does this prove that Satan was given power over the earth long before the creation of man?

[onewithhim]

DID GOD COMMISSION SATAN TO TEMPT HUMANS?



Satan wasn't "given power to temps man" as in, comissioned by God to temps humans, Satan made that decision himself. God simply didn't kill him (Satan) once he (Satan) had gone ahead and acted on his decision.

In essence then, god committed a "sin" of omission. (Being omniscient god would have known what Satan was about to do.)

sin of omission
"a sin committed because of neglecting to do what is right.
source

In this case, stop Satan.


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It has been said, and I agree, that God can choose to not know something. If he is all-powerful, wouldn't that be the case? He chose to not know what Adam and Eve and Satan would do. That's the only way He could say anything to humans or angels with a straight face. Many of us can sing, but do we sing all the time? We might choose not to sing. The same with Jehovah. He gave His creations the ability to think for themselves, and He holds them responsible for what they choose to do.

Adam or Eve could've stopped Satan, but they chose to listen to him. The deed was done....the fall of the human race. Would Jehovah have proven anything by destroying Satan and even Adam and Eve? He could have---He is all-powerful. But the question would still be in millions of angels' minds. Did Satan have a point when he said what he said at Genesis 3:4? Was he telling the truth? Jehovah let it all play out, and humans would have the privilege of showing that Satan was a liar.

[Miles]

Who ultimately decides in the absolute what is right and what is wrong? You?

Why not?

Because for any human who, by definition is limited in lifespan, experience and knowledge to set himself up as the the universal judge what is acceptable for all intelligent beings for all time would be the ultimate in folly. No human (not even you my friend) is in a position to properly assess every action, its motives and circumstances and see the ultimate gravity of said action as it impacts on others as far into the future as they wil exist. No human can see, let alone understand the entire scope of existence and judge what and how that must be assessed to ensure the best of all possible outcomes for everyone concerned ... for all time.

That's why not.

...your fallible god has nicely disqualified himself...

Would this be another example of you "saying" what you believe to be true?

No.
Do you think that anyone who has shown himself to be fallible should have the right to dictate absolutes? I don't---as a matter of note, moral absolutes is an absurd ethical concept to begin with.
In any case, from simply reading the Bible we find that your god is not so grand after all. He makes mistakes (made Saul the king of Israel, which he regretted doing), makes immoral judgements (slavery is just hunky-dory), creates evil (Isaiah 45:7 "I . . . create evil: I the Lord do all these things."), commits atrocities (has innocent women, children, and infants killed for no better reason than that they exist), and lacks a sense of proportion (has two bears maul and kill 42 kids for making fun of someone's baldness), an act that should surely take him out of the running as Dictator of Moral Absolutes.

The God of the bible* is presented as being infaillible, incorruptible, infinite and omniscient; in short, to be the ONLY one with the needed qualities and capacities to declare what is right and what is wrong for everyone.

A concept predicated on the need to make the Jewish-Christian god the greatest god of all. So that's what the Hebrews did. They fashioned a god whose character was almost flawless. Some of the exceptions, which I've listed above, I imagine came about because Moses et al. saw them as acceptable: "There's nothing wrong about beating a slave to death as long as he doesn't die within a day or two. Heck, it's done every week. But hey, see those two guys behind the shed getting it on with each other? Gees! I hate that stuff. They should be put to death; and I bet god would agree with me. I know!" He picks up his pen and starts writing "Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, h̶e̶ both . . . ."



.

[Miles]

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Why was Satan given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?

Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?

Satan was given power over the earth long before the creation of man:

Which can be found in what chapter and verse(s)?
.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Not a thing about Satan being given power over the earth long before the creation of man. Want to try again?:


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[Miles]

DID GOD COMMISSION SATAN TO TEMPT HUMANS?



Satan wasn't "given power to temps man" as in, comissioned by God to temps humans, Satan made that decision himself. God simply didn't kill him (Satan) once he (Satan) had gone ahead and acted on his decision.

In essence then, god committed a "sin" of omission. (Being omniscient god would have known what Satan was about to do.)

sin of omission
"a sin committed because of neglecting to do what is right.
source

In this case, stop Satan.


.

It has been said, and I agree, that God can choose to not know something. If he is all-powerful, wouldn't that be the case?

But how would he know what not to know if he never knew it?



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