Christian Salvation?

[POI]

According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

- Does a stillborn baby receive a free pass?
- Do all deceased children receive a free pass, prior to the age of enlightenment?
- Is it mandatory to believe, worship, and also attempt to follow Hm; while still knowing you will fall short of perfection in your attempts?
- Is some sort of baptism a requirement for salvation?
- Can you lack conviction that God even exists, but still be selected by your judged upon works?
- Must you keep specific Commandments all the time?
- Does blasphemy of the Holy Spirit guarantee damnation, regardless of later repentance of this prior deemed offense (i.e.) the born again Christians might be screwed?
- Are earnest deathbed conversions, by way of belief and repent to the Christian God, enough?
- Must you love God more than you love anyone on earth?
- Can you be a devout believer/follower, but choose not to give away the majority of your wealth to ones more in need than you?
- Can you be saved if you practice monogamous homosexuality until death?

[PinSeeker]

I have often quoted you as stating that the wages for our sins is "everlasting conscious torment."

But you couldn't have, because I never said such.

Sure you have:

I said the everlasting punishment is consciously endured and is a torment to them,

Myth-one, I'm making a DISTINCTION here between the everlasting punishment itself and their enduring of it and their reaction to it. A distinction between them, meaning they are two different things!

When a father spanks his son for... well, something... ... is the punishment the same as his sadness/crying? No, it's not. The punishment was the spanking. And perhaps the sting in the kid's backside, I guess... But not the kid's sadness or crying.

Okay that's enough.

Grace and peace to you?

[myth-one.com]

I have often quoted you as stating that the wages for our sins is "everlasting conscious torment."

But you couldn't have, because I never said such.

Sure you have:

I said the everlasting punishment is consciously endured and is a torment to them,

Myth-one, I'm making a DISTINCTION here between the everlasting punishment itself and their enduring of it and their reaction to it.

There is no enduring or reaction to the everlasting punishment of death.

[PinSeeker]

There is no enduring or reaction to the everlasting punishment of death.

The death IS the eternal enduring of and reaction to ~ and dwelling/existing in ~ the punishment itself. That's WHY it is everlasting.

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

There is no enduring or reaction to the everlasting punishment of death.

The death IS the eternal enduring of and reaction to ~ and dwelling/existing in ~ the punishment itself. That's WHY it is everlasting.

Grace and peace to you.

The dead are not alive.

The living can endure and react. The dead cannot.

The death is the punishment. The wages of sin is death.

The wages of sin is not enduring and reacting to anything.

The second death is everlasting because no one will ever be resurrected to any form of life after their second death!

The second death is the end of a person.

[PinSeeker]

The dead are not alive. The living can endure and react. The dead cannot.

Agree, but they exist, and are conscious ~ both in this age and the next. We are back, once again, to your misunderstanding of death in God's economy. Isaiah clearly differentiates (poetically, but true none the less) between true life and true death in chapter 25 of his prophecy:

• "Behold, your God will come with vengeance, with the recompense of God. He will come and save you. Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf unstopped; then shall the lame man leap like a deer, and the tongue of the mute sing for joy" (vv.4-6).

The death is the punishment.

That's... what I just said. I'm glad you agree, but if one doesn't understand what he is agreeing with, then that's potentially a problem.

The second death is everlasting because no one will ever be resurrected to any form of life after their second death!

Yes, because at the point of entering into this death, unbelievers have already been resurrected (to judgment, as John 5:29 states).

The second death is the end of a person.

Well, yes, for sure, but it's not the end of existence of the person. The person is sent away ~ and obediently goes ~ to a place entirely separate from the new heaven and new earth, just as Jesus clearly says and shows (in Matthew 7, Matthew 25, and Luke 16).

Grace and peace to you.

[Eloi]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #3]
I agree.

If bad people somehow lived on forever, that would mean that God Himself could not annihilate them, or that he would take some kind of pleasure in torturing conscious people for all eternity.

Furthermore, the sense of immortality as a gift from God to righteous people (1 Cor. 15: 53,54) would be meaningless ... how can people who have been wicked from God's point of view have immortality?

On the other hand: was that the fate that God told Adam that he would have if he disobeyed him (Gen. 2:17; 3:19) ? Who invented something like that?

Jer. 32:35 Furthermore, they built the high places of Baʹal that are in the valley of the son of Hinʹnom, in order to make their sons and their daughters pass through [the fire] to Moʹlech, a thing that I did not command them, neither did it come up into my heart to do this detestable thing, for the purpose of making Judah sin.’

Did you know that the place where the Israelites made these child sacrifices to the pagan gods was the one that Josiah desecrated and turned into the garbage dump of Jerusalem? It is precisely the place that symbolizes Gehenna ... where the unfaithful Jews committed these atrocities against their own God Jehovah. A very significant contrast: the infidels burn living people to pagan gods, and the faithful ones turned the place into a dump for trash, excrement and corpses of criminals. (See more information about that real ancient place here https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004452 ) .

[otseng]

I trust now you see how you are in violation of basic logic.

LOL! Ah, yes, so you missed my point in likening you to Nicodemus. Well, I'm not surprised.

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