#5 Jesus on Hell Matthew 25:31-46

[Wootah]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Verse 46 says they will go away to eternal punishment but the righteous to eternal life.

If 'go away to eternal punishment' means annihilation then why presume 'righteous to eternal life' means eternal life?

There are two eternal destinations, hell and heaven being expressed in verse 46.

Isn't it biased to say eternal punishment is not eternal but eternal life is eternal life?

According to those that believe in annihilation and that the Bible doesn't teach hell, why do they interpret the first half of verse 46 as non-literal and the second half as literally?

[PinSeeker]

All these discussions inevitably, invariably come down to this: Death, in the Bible, is a state of existence.

The first death is. The second death is not. No one has experienced the second death yet.

Well, we disagree, and we're all well aware of that, right? Yes, the first and second deaths are both states of existence. We disagree on that (at least regarding the second death). I do agree, however, that no one has yet experienced the second death, though; that will not happen for anyone until Judgment Day.

To be dead in sin, as unbelievers are in this life, is a state of existence.

But that is not the second death. People who are dead in their sins are still among the living.

Agreed. I've said many times what the second death is and when it happens (for many), and what I'm talking about here is... not it. Agreed.

Grace and peace to you.

[2timothy316]

Because I read those posters comments about Ecc 9:5 and I cannot find where they taking anything out of context.

LOL! Well sure, because you agree with them. LOL!

Grace and peace to you.

Nope, wrong as normal.

It's because you do not have any convicting evidence that anyone is doing what you say.

[2timothy316]

LOL! Well, God has said. Thus saith the LORD. LOL! I'm merely sayng that I have said what I'm saying here many times before. My goodness. See what I mean by "out of context"?

God has NOT said. YOU said.

See? This is... kinda funny, actually. Here, you're taking me out of context. Whether it's intentional or not I'm not sure, but you're taking what I said totally out of the context in which I said it. So there you go. I even explained myself, saying that I'm merely offering an explanation here (or there) which is virtually identical to the explanation(s) I have given many times before. God said what He said in Ecclesiastes, which was what I was saying.

Grace and peace to you.

"I said" or "God said". Which one are you claiming people are taking Ecc 9 out of context? You have used both. In the above post, what are you saying God has said?
BTW please post your definition of context because I don't think you and I share the same definition.

[PinSeeker]

Because I read those posters comments about Ecc 9:5 and I cannot find where they taking anything out of context.

LOL! Well sure, because you agree with them. LOL!

Nope, wrong as normal.

In your opinion. Just saying 'wrong' doesn't make it so. And regarding both of these statements, certainly as normal.

It's because you do not have any convicting evidence that anyone is doing what you say.

Ecclesiastes 9 and Ecclesiastes in general is all that's needed. As I said regarding Ecclesiastes (and certainly the rest of His Word), it is what it is; God said what He said.

Grace and peace to you.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #24]

You avoided my main question in post 23.
God or you, which one are you claiming people are taking Ecc 9 out of context?

[tam]

Peace to you!

Pinseeker, which death do you believe Ecc 9 is referring to? I think I know what you mean, but just to be clear. Thanks!

[2timothy316]

Because I read those posters comments about Ecc 9:5 and I cannot find where they taking anything out of context.

LOL! Well sure, because you agree with them. LOL!

Nope, wrong as normal.

In your opinion. Just saying 'wrong' doesn't make it so. And regarding both of these statements, certainly as normal.

It does make you wrong when the reason I don't see anyone taking Ecc 9 out of context is not because I agree with them. I don't see anyone taking Ecc 9 out of context because I can't find any evidence of them doing that. Quit trying to explain why I agree or disagree with people. Let me speak for myself.

Is your reason that you find them taking Ecc 9 out of context simply because you disagree with them or because you have evidence that they are?

[PinSeeker]

It does make you wrong when the reason I don't see anyone taking Ecc 9 out of context is not because I agree with them. I don't see anyone taking Ecc 9 out of context because I can't find any evidence of them doing that.

Nope. It merely means you are unable to see or "find any evidence."

Quit trying to explain why I agree or disagree with people. Let me speak for myself.

I mean, I'll do what I want, thanks, and yes, you can certainly speak for yourself.

Is your reason that you find them taking Ecc 9 out of context simply because you disagree with them or because you have evidence that they are?

Um... yes. In another thread (Revelation 14), my answer to myth-one might be helpful here:

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* he said: Located under the sun or not, the dead know not any thing.[/quote]
* I said: You understand, surely, that "under the sun" is a euphemism for our experience of this life, right? I mean, surely you do. Well, if you didn't before, you do now.[/quote]
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* he said: You are correct that they are no longer present in this life -- because they are dead.[/quote]
* I said: Right, so when they pass from this life, they no longer know anything of ~ no longer experience in any way ~ this life "under the sun." This is the context of Ecclesiastes 9.

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And carrying it forward a bit, just because it's left unsaid, it should not be then understood that they have no experience whatsoever, as would be the case if they were annihilated. The clear implication in Ecclesiastes is that they are experiencing something even though they are no longer "under the sun." Like the thief crucified on Jesus's left whom Jesus said nothing to, they are experiencing something... something other than being in paradise with Him, as the thief crucified on Jesus's right did. I mean, you're making the point for me without even realizing it. Oh well, it is what it is.[/quote]

You'll say yet again that I'm adding something that's not there. Well, in the absolute sense, okay, but reading the text for all it's worth, absolutely not. Grace and peace to you.

[PinSeeker]

Pinseeker, which death do you believe Ecc 9 is referring to? I think I know what you mean, but just to be clear. Thanks!

The first. No problem!

Grace and peace to you.

[PinSeeker]

You avoided my main question in post 23. God or you, which one are you claiming people are taking Ecc 9 out of context?

Well, maybe, but it was unintentional. I think I've answered it many times over. The writer of Ecclesiastes, humanly speaking, but God, ultimately, in view of what Paul tells us in 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

Grace and peace to you.